The Unholy Trinity Reunion

Speaker 1: Here we go. Speaker 2: Stand by. Three, two, one. Speaker 1: The thinking atheist. It's not a person. It's a symbol. An idea. Speaker 2: The population of atheists in this country is. Speaker 3: Going through the roof. Speaker 1: Rejecting faith. Pursuing knowledge. challenging the sacred if i tell.

Speaker 4: The truth it's because i tell the truth not because i put my hand on a book and made a wish. Speaker 1: And working together for a more rational world. Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking for yourself much more happiness truth beauty and wisdom will come to you that.

Speaker 4: Way assume nothing question everything and start thinking this is the thinking atheist podcast Hosted by Seth Andrews.

Speaker 2: And finally, here it is. the release of the audio and the video from the big reunion event with myself, Matt Dillahunty, and R.N. Raw. This was just a few weeks ago in Fort Worth, Texas. It's a format that I really have come to like. One thing about being a participant in so many conventions and live events is I've always wanted to be able to produce it a certain way, and I've I've used this format. I used

it with Forrest Valkyrie and Gutzik Gibbon in Tulsa and Noah Lusions and myself in Cincinnati, where we give formal presentations to the audience and then we kind of mix things up. We give away prizes. And one of my favorite parts is we get to read our hate mail.

And so I I've done this on several occasions, and I knew Matt and Oren would have some awesome hate mail. And so it's a potpourri. It's a variety show. There's just so much stuff going on. The video is linked in the description box. It is, I mean, it was three hours. A little over, actually, so if we deduct the break in the middle, it's still almost 245, 250.

So it's a long show. I will partition it out into a few sections. I've taken the liberty of editing out a few things that simply don't work with audio. Matt did a very visual magic trick. We did some housekeeping at the beginning with some announcements, etc., So as best I can, I tried to hone things down for you here. But you're going to feel the energy of the crowd, and I think you're really going to enjoy it.

The Unholy Trinity Reunion Event, August 29th at the Fort Worth Botanic Garden Auditorium. 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Go!

Speaker 5: Good afternoon and welcome Let's begin by answering a question you all may be asking Why is this opening announcement being narrated by a man with an English accent? Simply put, the producer recently watched Monty Python's Life of Brian for the umpteenth time and is feeling a bit British. Several have asked if today's event qualifies as a family show.

You and the kids will be delighted to hear that, yes, it absolutely fucking does. If you've accidentally wandered into this auditorium thinking it was a church service, consider yourself fortunate, because many times over the next several hours, you are guaranteed to hear the name of God. to everyone else, it's obvious you're here today simply because you want to sin.

Speaker 6: Ah yes, I knew it. Speaker 5: Well, we know that sins come in many forms, depending on which God is making the rules. But for our purposes today, there are only three blasphemies to avoid. One, please no loud talking while the speakers are loud talking. Two, We ask that you silence your cell phone so the goddamn thing doesn't go off in the middle of the

show and we must then shame you publicly. Three, don't be unkind. If you see someone nearby who might need assistance with a chair or a stair, lend a humanist hand and make his or her day just a little bit easier. It feels good to be good, for goodness sake.

Thank you so much for coming. Without further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the show, and fuck ice.

Speaker 2: I guess we'll begin with our first presentation of the day. Speaker 3: I have no fucking clue when I met him because it seems like we've known each other forever and he is actually more likely to remember than I am but that's because everything for me is a blur now. Probably we were introduced at one of the many conventions we were doing when we were doing conventions all the time when it seems like every three or four weeks there was another convention and And I'm sure that somebody, maybe

even somebody in this room who was fans of both of us, introduced this. That's at least how it lives in my imagination. Turns out we had a lot in common. He was focused on demolishing creationism, and I was taking on all arguments every week on a call-in show. He was a huge Motorhead fan, and I knew roughly who they were. I had a pretty high spicy food tolerance, and he was trying to set the world record every day and can clearly feel no pain. We both love

and keep a lot of reptiles, which we will happily tell you everything about for days. But mostly we have the same mission. And Seth talked to me about doing the first Unholy Trinity event. I think it was on a flight where we were sitting next to each other when we first talked about it. And I just remember being excited that there was going to be three friends doing this and not just, oh, let's pick out whatever's marketable.

Because anybody who knows me knows that I'm no good at and do not care what is actually marketable. So we have toured the world. We have argued with street preachers. We have done debates. We have met with thousands of people, all because of folks like you. So a huge thank you to you guys for showing up. Please get up for my great friend, the snake-handling, spice-snorting, creationist-destroying Arden Ardenrod.

Thank you very kindly, Matt. Speaker 6: Now, dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Electric word, life. It does not mean forever, and it's a mighty short time. But I'm here to tell you there's nothing else, just this world.

I deviated from the lyrics you may have expected because Prince, to his detriment, was a devoted Jehovah's Witness, and he said there was going to be something else, an afterlife. Speaker 2: But what did he know? Speaker 6: He thought the world was going to end in 2000.

So we're going to party like it's a quarter century ago because we're still here. Our world's not going to end until next year. Although there is a chance, a small chance, that we could still change the timeline, but only if we are coordinated and committed. And that's what I'm hoping for. And just because we're atheists doesn't mean we don't have hope. That's what brought us together. And Matt, Seth,

and I came together as the Unholy Trinity because although we come from different backgrounds with different perspectives, we are very different people, but we have a shared motivation. We were all former believers who got over it. We got better.

And when we came out of this literally stupefying, mentally debilitating belief system of thought control, we started to notice things that believers are conditioned never to notice. like that something is seriously wrong here. Why does unconditional love come with conditions? And why does God not even love all his own son, his own chosen people sometimes? Because if you have kids, you let all the siblings know that

you chose that one. Speaker 7: That you have a favorite child. Speaker 6: And that the chosen one might murder all the other kids when they fall out of your favor. But sometimes the chosen kid falls out of favor too, and that's when dad allows the other siblings to come in and smite him. You know, responsible parenting. It had to be that way ever since Snow White took a bite of a cursed apple. Except that it's not a children's fairy tale.

It's a fairy tale, but it's not for children because Snow White is naked. Though she is still white for some reason because Christian nationalists said so. And she's a clone from the rib of a magically enchanted mud golem.

And she didn't get the apple from a witch. No, don't be silly. There's no such thing as witches outside of Endor. It came from a talking snake, which is much more reasonable. The curse of this fruit is if you eat of it, you become intelligent, which is a sin.

because smart people don't buy into fairy tales like this. Smart people ask questions, which is another sin, a sin against faith, because then even the clergy will have to make up new excuses to satisfy your questions, and then they won't be able to believe it themselves, though it's not necessary that the clergy It's only necessary that the masses believe and obey. And that's why authorities say, how

dare you question the word of God? The way it was put to me as a child was that ours is not the reason why. Ours is but to do or die. That's what the grown-ups in my life told me as a kid whenever I asked the kind of questions that they always avoided questions. We are told to surrender our reason and pay our tithing and do the Lord's work that the Lord can't do himself because he can't do everything. So the church has you do the

work that the church. Speaker 2: Can't do and can't pay for. Speaker 6: And then you pay the church for the work they don't really do and that they don't have to pay taxes on like we do. And you're also supposed to rat out any of your neighbors who aren't buying into the bullshit. There has to be, there is to be no reasoning with the infidel because then you're in danger of learning something. So the only safe tactic is that anyone who doesn't believe or who believes differently must be

demonized to force conformity through a tribal mentality of social depression and of deviance. Manipulation of the masses without dissension, that's what it's all about. That's why theocracies historically treat heresy, blasphemy, and apostasy as as capital crimes. Believe whatever we said just because we said so, and do what you're told because we told you to. Let us do the thinking. Oh, you can trust us. At the same time, deceivers take

you into their confidence. Take heed that no man deceives you. Isn't that a funny statement coming from a liar? For many will come pretending to speak to and for Christ and will deceive many. and there will be wars and rumors of wars. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places, just like there is always every year and

has been all of that ever since mankind invented religion and fused it with politics to impose authoritarian control over the ignorant laity, so long as they can remain ignorant. That's why authoritarians always attack education first. discrediting the educated, praising unreasonable gullibility as a virtue so that folks begin to brag about how stupid they are. The ruling class

controls the media and has them criticizing compassion as woke ideology so that we will not stand up for the sake of our neighbors, the socialists accused of being communists, the unionists accused of being socialists, the gays, unless they're in a Republican closet, and immigrants seeking legal asylum and so on. When any demographic of the others are attacked, we are safe. Or so we think we are. That's

not a society. That's a herd. The lions take out the unprotected, the elderly, the calves. But how much stronger would the whole herd be if they figured out what the lions were doing and came to defend that calf en masse? Four lions on one calf is a win, unless that calf is defended by 30 buffalo. There was a time in our history when we were not strong

as gorillas or chimpanzees, but we weren't smart yet either. We were dumb and weak and slow, but we survived because when the predators came for any of us, they had to face all of us because we are not cattle.

We are each individual lives in fear, and only cares about itself. Altruism comes from compassion, from camaraderie, and it's the greatest strength that people have. After that came intelligent inquiry, both of which our compassion and our comprehension must be suppressed by anyone trying to capture or control us. And for myself personally, the catalyst that motivated me to activism

was when I encountered religious reconstructionists online bragging about how their pastor had been on the phone with other pastors across the state so that they could get all of their congregations to vote as a block, so that they could elect right-wing evangelicals to every level of state and federal government, from school board members to judges to senators and so on. They said they were going to take over the country this way. And this is a direct violation of the Johnson Amendment because Religious extremists don't follow

man's laws. They follow God's laws that were written by men, pretending to have a higher calling of righteous indignation, where freedom is compliance, liberty is submission, and where critical inquiry is punishable by law, and where the fear of the Lord is conflated with wisdom somehow. And this reminds me of a comment that I heard from a child asking if any villain in any movie ever thought that they were the good guy. Of course, we know that the

absolute worst villains ever are the ones who think that they're the good guys. They're the ones determined to force us all to submit to authority in compliance with their immoral morality. If you're uncertain how to tell the good guys from the villains, it comes down to the ones trying to preserve, protect, and promote your rights versus the ones trying to retract or restrict your rights. Women have already lost their right to bodily autonomy. And the Heritage Foundation is coming for their right to vote, too, and

many of our other rights as well. I was proud to be an American when I used to think I was free. But now Congress is making laws respecting an establishment of state religion and prohibiting all other religious perspectives.

As just one example of that, here in Texas, right-wing evangelicals are weaving Bible study from conservative evangelical perspective into public school curriculum funded by hundreds of millions of tax dollars. Does it violate the constitutional separation of church and state? Of course it does. Will it be struck down by religious judges in the Supreme Court, thanks to Donnie Dictator?

Speaker 8: No. Speaker 6: And by the way, my wife and I are making a video series examining the right-wing Christian agenda in this curriculum on my channel. I've been to Austin many times, testifying against these encroachments of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. but they keep coming back no matter how many times Christians and Jews testify that they don't want their religion politicized.

And now the conservative evangelicals and Catholics have a Supreme Court willing to lie about their Constitution, what it actually says. And so here we are with an unrestrained Christian nationalist-led movement. And now that the Supreme Court is unbalanced in their favor and Republican Congress is just rubber stamping whatever this administration does, they are litigiously abridging the freedom of speech and of the press, and using military force against the right of the people to peaceably assemble. And that's not all.

We no longer even have a guarantee of due process. Because according to National Security Presidential Memorandum 7, anyone heard of that? Speaker 8: No? Speaker 6: Just a couple. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 6: If you declare that you are anti-fascist, then you may.

Speaker 3: Be declared an enemy of the state. Speaker 6: Which is a bit of a Freudian admission, isn't it? If you say that you're against fascism, that means you're against the Trump administration. And likewise, if you support local social programs, they'll call you a socialist. If you are a socialist, they'll call you a communist. And if you are a communist who believes in everything that America used to stand for, then you'll be labeled as anti-American. NSPM

7 says that if you are not a capitalist, then you're anti-American. If you're anti-Christian, then you're un-American, which is worse than being not American. And if you believe in tolerance of immigrants, and if you believe in gay and trans people, non-binary, LGBTQ, which I prefer to refer to more simply as queer folk, If you think that all these people, regardless of race or gender or religion, economic opinions,

that they all have the same rights as Americans, as do rich, straight, white, cisgendered, capitalist Christian men, then NSPM 7 says that you may be declared a domestic terrorist. Yeah, and there are specific rules for how to deal with foreign terrorists. There are no such rules for those erroneously, unfairly or unjustly deemed to be domestic terrorists. If they

put you in that category, they can just disappear you off the street and gulag you into a concentration camp, maybe in a foreign country where no one will ever see you again or hear your case. We've already seen worse than that done to folks who never even made that list. And without our constitutionally guaranteed freedom of expression and due process, neither of which we effectively have anymore, not the guarantee, then we are not a free country in any sense. As someone said, we were never a

free country before, but we were more free before Trump than we are now. And we should be more free now than we have ever been. But 70 million people decided to vote the wrongest way possible, and tens of millions more sat on their hands saying stupid things like, don't vote, it's a broken system. Those idiots are at least as much to blame as those who voted for the greater evil on purpose. Such were the religious reconstructionists that I was talking to way back all those years ago.

They told me how they were going to overturn our once proud, precedent-setting, science-based, secular democratic republic and replace it with an oppressive, theocratic, authoritarian regime. Just look at the measles and COVID outbreaks in our military, and Texas in particular.

After Texas eased vaccination requirements this week, the San Perlita School District shut down due to a COVID outbreak. And they've just declared, I think, here in Texas, they had a child die for the first time in, I don't know, decades. It's partly political due to having RFK Jr. and anti-vaxxer Quack in charge of the Department of Health, but it's also religious due to growing clamor from religious people for

religious exemptions to recommended vaccines. It doesn't come as a surprise to any of us, we warned about Project 2025. I get that you can't read a 900-page document, but you can sift through it, and there are certain things you can target. Those Reconstructionists that I was talking to way back then were like the villains in a James Bond movie or that old Batman TV show in how they revealed their fiendish plan only because they were convinced that they had already won and that there was nothing that you or I or anyone can do to stop them.

Speaker 2: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Speaker 6: The first draft of what would become Project 2025 was originally detailed in the wedge strategy that was leaked from the Discovery Institute around Y2K. The first step of that plan was to attack science education in order to make the people more susceptible to religious indoctrination. The conflict between evolution and creationism was something that I knew an awful lot about at that time, things that most people wouldn't know unless they went to college and then only if

they took specific courses. So I started my YouTube channel to make the important information readily available for people who had no education at all and maybe a short attention span. And by the way, last week, I passed the 20-year milestone on YouTube. I will let Matt and Seth say what inspired them into action if they want to talk about that, but this is what motivated me. When you

see something, say something. And fortunately, we each had our own way to do that. When I met Seth, he was an activist on the radio showing that there was a human heart behind the secular mind. When I met Matt, he was on television destroying arguments of scriptural literalism and philosophical fuckery. Radio and TV. So I felt like an imposter because all I had was a YouTube channel. I was a guest on Matt's TV show a couple of times.

And I remember walking into that TV studio in Austin, Texas, which back then, was the same studio that Alex Jones used to broadcast Info Wars. Now, so far as I know, the two men never met because they were there on different days of the week. But every week, Matt Dillahunty and Alex Jones walked down the same hallway. And I thought that was remarkable because Matt showed up to spread logic, reason,

human compassion, and the best understanding of factual or philosophical truth possible in this moment. And Alex Jones went there to do the very opposite of all of that. Guess which one of these guys made hundreds of millions of dollars off their show? Because we all know that sex sells, but so does bullshit. Big time, major league bullshit, as Carl Sagan put it. Excuse me, George Carlin. Getting my

heroes confused. Yet here we are, gathered today, a dozen years after our tour in Albuquerque, Amarillo, San Antonio, extended down under to Sydney, Brisbane, and Melbourne, Australia. And what has happened in the decade or so since then? Well, if you've been in a coma for the last 11 years, I've got bad news. I remember when we went down under and some Australians asked me if I thought that Trump would be elected. And at the time, I was

still willing to give my fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt that Maybe we weren't that stupid. Yep, we are. Somehow my hundreds of thousands of YouTube subscribers and other independent sources pushing back prior to 2016 were no match for the hundreds of millions of dollars annually being pumped into legacy propaganda campaigns, trying to divide and conquer Americans

in an attempt to Christianize our country. which was never about the truth of God. There is no truth of God. It's all about control, manipulation of the masses, extorting you for the benefit of the ruling class, which at this moment are the plutocrats in the oligarchy. I remember being more hopeful about turning things around back in 2016, but to my surprise, there were other self-identified non-Christians in league with conservatives to promote the Republican Party, like Dave Rubin,

who spoke at the Reason Rally a decade ago. He's a cultural Jew who identified as an atheist then, but now he says he's an agnostic who believes that Judeo-Christian values were important foundation for society. I hate the label of cultural Christian too. I'm a cultural Satanist. And later we found out that Dave Rubin and a number of other people that belong to this media group that he

belonged to were being funded by Russia. So I'm glad I was never popular with that crowd. And back then, it was no secret the GOP was overtly controlled by right-wing evangelicals, but there were still arguments in secular circles about making peace with the Republican Party. Yeah, sheep make deals with wolves. It was as wrong-headed as the log cabin Republicans, thinking that they could change the direction of

the openly homophobic and transphobic Christian nationalist GOP. It's not like they kept their theocratic and anti-queer plan secret. After Trump appointed three theocratic Supreme Court justices, every prediction about the demise of Roe v. Wade came true. And that was never a secret to anyone either. It was always on the top of their theocratic hit list. And then you had supposed pro-choice Republicans like Senator Susan Collins's Buying

into the bullshit that Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett sold to Congress to get her vote and get them confirmed to the Supreme Court. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. I don't know how GOP leaders could be any more blatant about what their agenda was.

At that time, it was the complete opposite direction we needed to be going with the balance in jeopardy, replacing Supreme Court justices with extreme court injustices. I bring up that today because we have to meet the current moment and not be fooled by cheap rhetoric that is undermining what little democracy we have left in our republic. Which brings me to the topic today. The progress of secularism in the U.S., which being the hegemony that it is,

affects the whole planet. It might seem a good idea to let Christians take over because they follow Jesus. Because every Christian believes what Jesus said, right? So whenever they need a plan, a plan of action, they say, what would Jesus do? And then they do the total opposite.

Today's Christians claim that they have a whole nation. This means a Christian nation. A Christian nation would be the best nation, right? Speaker 3: Because it's Christian. Speaker 6: And being Christian means that they're better than everyone else. And these Christian nationalists are certainly better than anyone else, right? Speaker 7: Especially the white ones. Speaker 6: Those are the superior Christians. Christian supremacy is white. And we know that a country that is based on the word of God and believes that Jesus is God is going to is going to revere the words of Jesus.

Speaker 9: Right. Speaker 6: So we know that a Christian nation will offer food and clothing and other charities for immigrants. Right. Because we love our neighbor as ourselves and we treat the foreigners among us as well as we do our own native born. Just like God and Jesus both said.

Speaker 3: Right. Speaker 6: Would Jesus call immigration and customs enforcement on anyone ever? Remember when Jesus said not to pray in public like the hypocrites do? Does that mean that all these Christian nationalists are hypocrites? Remember when Jesus repeatedly warned us not to store up treasures in this world, but to use acts of kindness to be later rewarded for them in the afterlife? Jesus said it would be virtually impossible for

a rich man to get into heaven. So how did so many modern Christians ever start preaching prosperity gospel? Jesus said to arrange charity donations to clothe the homeless and be especially charitable to immigrants and all of that, everything opposite of what the Christian nationalists are doing now. They're even demonizing empathy as woke ideology. They don't want you to care about other people. How Christlike.

Speaker 3: How Christlike. Speaker 6: Some of my viewers complain that I should just do science and not bash religion. Others say that I'm good at both of those things, but they say that I shouldn't talk about politics. But remember, the reason I started my channel was because of politics, specifically doing my humble best to keep from getting to where we are right now.

But having failed to stop this on my own, we need to work together. If you were hoping for a different topic today, understand that the current situation demands that we talk about what's happening right now, not things that might have happened 2,000 years ago, nor millions of years ago either, but this year. and next year. This is

going to sound like hyperbole, but it's not. We are facing an existential situation more serious than we have ever experienced collectively in our lives, not just as atheists, but as Americans. Don't tell me I'm biased, that I'm uninformed or otherwise wrong about politics, because I know better. We need to be of one mind on this issue. Any self-professed secularist who supports the blatantly theocratic GOP is contradicting

themselves and endangering our collective rights. So there must be some other reason why they're hassling me for calling out their party. What other reason would they criticize me for speaking out against the conservative right? Is it that they don't mind being ruled by irrational authoritarians with anti-science policies like having an anti-vaxxer in charge of our national health?

If you're complaining that my channel has become political, then you've never watched my videos because they've always been political. It's like when they complain about rage against the machine. I heard this recently, people complaining that rage against the machine had become political. Speaker 2: They were always.

Speaker 6: And I'm not going to be quiet about the religious right running things. It's no longer safe for me to speak out or to stay quiet. Since I'm still at risk either way, then I will not go quietly while they ruin everything for everyone. I have no issue with James Tallarico, though he is a Christian. I met him and spoke to him twice where he and I were

on the same side defending secularism. Don't blame the Democrats. I disagree with the old guard on a few things. Most people do. That's why progressives are gaining influence in the party. But Democrats aren't doing any of this. Sadly, they're not doing anything. Yeah, we need Dems who will do more than just write strongly worded letters, especially to

an illiterate. We need Dems who know how to play hardball against an opponent that they know is not going to play fair. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with the Democratic candidate on everything. The Republican candidate doesn't agree with you on anything. Figure that out. They're not

working for you. They vote however their owners tell them to. Progressives work for the people. So don't say that both sides are just as bad. Speaker 3: Both sides are bad. Speaker 6: But one is not that bad. It can be fixed. And it's being fixed. But the other side... is exponentially worse than this nation has ever seen. None of the

elected Dems are worse than any of the appointed Republicans. So, there may be only a few good people in politics, but they are all allied with the Democrats. The best Republicans have all resigned, rather than be associated with the criminally corrupt, amoral monsters that are in power now. Although,

as we've already seen in recent primaries recently, establishment corporatist Dems and fascist Republicans will be routed if we can get out to vote, if they don't find a way to stop or restrict the elections instead, because that's what they'll try to do. Texas has already suspended over a million voter registrations. So check yours to see if it's still good. If your vote didn't count, they wouldn't be trying so hard to discount it. So make sure you vote while you still can. And I know that every

election since 2016 has been the most important election of our lives. But this next one for the midterms may be our last shot at having elections at all. Because Trump has already said if he gets what he wants from Congress and the courts, and he always does, it seems, then we in this room will never see another free and fair election.

Speaker 3: He's said so publicly. Speaker 6: He's said so publicly. The Heritage Foundation is the fundamentalist Christian organization behind Project 2025, the plan to replace our democracy with theocracy. Their president, Kevin Roberts, stated on camera that a second American revolution will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. So you know how serious they think this is. I'm serious too. I want our

successful resistance to remain bloodless. But the way I see it, We have to win this or die trying because what they are threatening is not something we can live with. Just think about all those people who voted wrong in 2024 on the excuse of how bad could it be?

And now they're going to have to wonder how much worse can it get? And now before I lead us in a closing prayer. Yeah, just kidding. We know that wishing on a star doesn't do shit. We have to rely on each other. We are free thinkers, so we think for ourselves. But we need to try to work together for our own sakes and for the common good.

Let's do whatever is in our power to keep this nation secular and put an end to this fundamentalist idiocracy. Let us hope that it is mercifully short so that we can get back to sanity.

Speaker 2: Still to come, I've got my presentation and the tribute that Matt Dillahunty did for Dolly Parton. You may have already seen that, but it's included as part of the show. Then we've got Q & A and prizes and a whole lot of audience interaction. So much more to come next.

You are listening to the Unholy Trinity Reunion event from August 29th in Fort Worth, Texas. Speaker 6: My wife has decided that the unholy trinity consists of, I guess I'm the alternate of the Holy Ghost, I'm the demon. Because I have the horns. And by her analogy, that would necessarily make Matt God. But also, that means

that Seth Andrews is Jesus because he's the nice one. Speaker 10: Thank you. Speaker 6: My friend, Jesus.

Speaker 2: Okay, that's a first. Can everybody hear me okay through the stage mic? I was going to say there's a smart-ass enemy crowd, but it's pretty much all of you.

I think I might switch to this one. This one is a little more unnatural for me. Is this okay for you? It is strange that we talk a lot about what secular values are, but we often struggle to define what secular is. It's one of these words that we hear, we use it.

Speaker 7: How do we define it? Speaker 2: And many people might discover that throughout our history, you know, from the Civil War to the Civil Rights Movement to today, people who are religious and non-religious, they've joined together to say that, you know, while religious belief and non-belief is a protected and personal right, our government is not a church.

Secular means we choose science over the supernatural. Speaker 7: You're ahead of me on this. Speaker 2: Healthcare decisions should not be constrained by religious assumption. Women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies. Schools should be education first and not ideology first. And that our country cannot discriminate based on race, national origin, religion, no religion, sexuality, etc. Tax-exempt churches should have to stand

by the same rules. and abide by the same regulations as all of the other nonprofit organizations out there. And while the religious have every right to be religious, they are not the party of power. They are not better Americans. Now, I was raised in a very Christian nationalist culture. My private Christian schools taught me that all the founders were Christian.

Speaker 7: Anybody raised to believe that? Speaker 2: No. Oh, a bunch of you. This is Texas, right? What am I doing? Of course, of course, right? Hand over heart, praise Jesus Christians. These were the founding fathers of the United States. They wanted a Christian nation supporting Christian stuff. Washington, Madison, Franklin, Jefferson, etc. And so when they conceived of this great American experiment, they were supposedly

standing on the scriptures inspired by God himself. Speaker 7: And everywhere I looked, I saw God. Speaker 2: I mean, it was printed on America's stuff everywhere I looked. on the money and the Pledge of Allegiance, elected presidents taking their oath on the freaking Bible in the courts of law. People were taking their oath to tell the truth, so help me God. There were America, America, God shed his grace on thee type songs, patriotic songs.

Speaker 7: I spent my. Speaker 2: Fourth grade, actually I was in private Christian school for most of my education, but fourth grade, I was a student at the tiny church-owned evangelical Christian school called Temple Christian, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Wouldn't you like to see a young and very Christian Seth Andrews In the Christian school, fourth grade, ladies and gentlemen.

I mean. I know. It's like they were making little Christian nationalists in machines and cranking them out to go and crawl the culture. Speaker 7: That's what I felt like, right? Speaker 2: Check out the necktie. We had to wear patriotic colors. It was red, white, or blue pants and shirts. And then on the Chapel Wednesdays, we had ties, and the ties had American flags printed on them. Talk about embedding

Christianity into Americana. We stood and recited our Pledge of Allegiance, but as soon as we were done pledging to the American flag, we had to pledge to the Christian flag, and then we had to pledge allegiance to the Bible. Speaker 7: It was three and one. Speaker 6: Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 2: And I can remember these verbatim today. Tell me the power of Christian indoctrination to children is not hardcore. We used to sing songs with militarized language. Anybody sing? Speaker 7: Onward, Christian soldiers. Right, we were.

Speaker 2: Doing what? We're marching on to war. Speaker 7: This is messaging. Speaker 2: Battling against the foes, the cross of Christ in front of us, one in hope and doctrine. There was just one problem. Almost everything my Christian school and culture.

Speaker 7: Taught me was wrong. Speaker 2: Oh, if only someone in my Christian history class would have taught me about the true Thomas Jefferson, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence and vice president for four years before becoming U.S. president from 1801 to 1809. December, 1801,

the United States, freshly founded, the American experiment, truly extraordinary, historic, unlike anything that had ever been attempted before. Thomas Jefferson, serving as the third president of the U.S., he was, well, you're probably ahead of me, he was not a Christian nation advocate. The late 18th century, state of Connecticut, the

Danbury Baptists saw that the Congregationalists, the denomination of congregationalists was starting to really shift their weight around. They were moving and shaking and influencing and kind of running everything. And the Danbury Baptists were like, hey, this doesn't sound like equality to us. We don't want to be a minority class. It's we the people. And so they got together and they formed a coalition, the Danbury Baptists. And

they wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson voicing their concerns, right? Speaker 7: They wrote the letter. It was sent in December of 1801. Speaker 2: That letter to Jefferson included these words, our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty, that religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions. that the legitimate

power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. Speaker 7: And that letter went on. Speaker 2: To talk about those who seek after power and gain under the pretense of a governmental religion. They would actually be the enemy of religion. They'd be the enemy of law and good order. And so the message they had was pretty much threefold. They said, congrats on just becoming president.

By the way, religion is a private thing. It is not a public thing. It's not a national thing. And we are worried that Connecticut's going to play favorites and the Congregationalists are going to stomp on all the rest of us. Can you assure us this will not be the case? And Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter in response.

January 1st, 1802. He assured the Danbury group that he took his responsibility very seriously. And he said, yes, religion is a personal thing, not a national thing. In that letter, he said, believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between a man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions

only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people, which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. These are the written,

documented words of Thomas Jefferson. It's funny, they didn't teach me about this at Temple Christian School. Now, he obviously did admire some of the philosophies of Jesus, but he's also the same guy who took a knife and he sliced out all of the supernatural stuff that Jesus did in the Gospels.

Speaker 7: That's kind of sacrilegious sounding, isn't it? Speaker 2: Moral lesson stayed, but the miracles got the ax. And for people who don't believe me, I like to tell them, oh, well, why don't you visit the Smithsonian where the Jefferson Bible is on display right now? Back in 1776, a few months after the writing of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson borrowed from the English philosopher John Locke. When he wrote

in his notes, neither pagan nor Muslim nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion. Man, I sure would like to see some people talking about this when the Trump cult is going after Mamdani and all of the other, right?

Have you seen the anti-Muslim bigotry that has been surging over the past few months? They're terrified. Some of Jefferson's contemporaries were scandalized because he owned a copy of the Koran. Speaker 7: That wasn't in my history books. Strange.

Speaker 2: Now, people like to argue about his religious beliefs. Was he a theist? Was he a deist? Christopher Hitchens was really a Jefferson's historian, I think, and he came to the conclusion, I think most historians do, that Jefferson was. Speaker 7: Likely mostly a deist. Speaker 2: But his personal faith or his lack of faith really made no difference as to how the Constitution itself was written.

how laws were made, how the courts ought to rule, how the U.S. should operate in the face of both allies and enemies. Religion and government, two separate things. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of our Constitution. It's not hard, not hard to read, not hard to understand.

People love to revise this sucker. People like history revisionist David Barton, Christian nationalist David Barton, they make whole careers revising Out of saying, hey, was it Andrew Seidel who said that they are arguing that one half of the clause is hostile to the other because.

Speaker 7: We are a Christian nation. They want a state church. Speaker 2: And so people like David Barton need the founders to agree with them. He is a darling. of the Christian church. This guy has no degree in history, he has no training in history, he has no credibility or credentials in history, and yet Christianity, churches everywhere, are parading him left and right as an expert in our history.

Speaker 7: Christian churches teach his books as history. Speaker 2: Our former superintendent of public instruction in Oklahoma, Ryan Walters, said that his books was one of his favorite books. That guy was running education. No wonder we're ranked.

Speaker 11: 50 out of 50 states in Oklahoma. Speaker 2: This guy graduated from Oral Roberts University. Speaker 7: Anybody know who Oral is? Speaker 2: Oral Roberts? Scam evangelist, faith healer, millionaire con artist.

Speaker 7: This is the guy who said he had a vision. Speaker 2: He had a vision and God showed him a 900 foot tall Jesus, 300 feet taller than a hospital that he was commanded. Speaker 7: By God to build the city of faith. Speaker 2: By the way, it lasted not even a decade before it went freaking bankrupt. And nobody was asking the question,

why would a faith healer need a hospital? But this college turned out Christianity's favorite non-historian, right? And even now, though, there are some people in the faith who want nothing to do with Dave Barton.

Speaker 7: In 2012, Dave Barton wrote this book. Speaker 2: It's called The Jefferson Lies, Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson. He said those separation seculars have not been teaching the real history, right? Jefferson didn't want a secular. He wanted a Christian nation. The problem is David Barton was so full of shit that if you

gave him an enema, he would vanish forever. The publisher of his book was Thomas Kinkade Publishing. This is one of the most prolific and popular publishers of Bibles in the world. Thomas Kinkade pulled his book, citing a loss

of confidence about the material that was within. They said, Basic truths were not there. You know what. Speaker 7: We call that? We call that lies.

Speaker 2: Lies. We know he wasn't a saint. Jefferson, none of the founders were saints. Like, these were flawed men. We don't deify them. That's not the point. Hell, they were slave owners. They denied women access to the halls of power.

And in many ways, they had some very primitive ideas. But that doesn't change the fact that the American experiment is revolutionary and kind of magical. Their histories and stories are messy, but the American experiment is still wonderful. a nation with no king, no state church, no national dogma, and a wall protecting the church from the government and the government from the church. Thomas Paine, in his book, The Age of Reason, said he believed in God, but

all national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit. George Washington's personal religious beliefs, continued to be debated, but even when he spoke to a Hebrew congregation in a church in August of 1790, he said these words all possess a like liberty.

Speaker 7: Of conscience and immunities of citizenship. Speaker 2: Benjamin Franklin, likely a deist, He had been raised in a very strict Calvinist home. He had become skeptical of the church, organized religion. He would, in his life, invoke God or a supreme being from time to time. He was confusing in that way. It was hard to pin him down. But he saw ethical behavior existing far beyond any single religion. In fact, he once advised people should

imitate Jesus and Socrates. 1796, the United States wanted to secure commercial shipping rights and protect our ships on the Mediterranean Sea connected to Tripoli. Those waters had been plagued for 300 years by privateers and pirates operating out of North Africa, and so we needed guarantees of rights and protections if we were going to use those shipping lanes

as a guarantee to that nation that, hey, if we use those lanes, we promise you we're not going to become Christian colonizers. Speaker 7: The famous Treaty of Tripoli was drawn up. Speaker 2: It was signed by none other than John Adams, and it included these words, and I quote, the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Speaker 7: He was a Unitarian. He didn't believe in the Trinity. Speaker 2: He liked a lot about Christianity, but in a letter that he wrote to his wife in 1799, he admitted that his belief, quote. Speaker 7: Excludes superstition. Speaker 2: Imagine if this history was taught to every American child today.

Speaker 7: And their parents. Speaker 2: And they understood our secular founding and the backstory behind so many of the Christian nation defenses out there. The original motto for the United States wasn't in God we trust. Of course, you know this. It was e pluribus unum, out of many, one, the Latins. And God we trust was not put on our coins until right around the time of the Civil War. There had been a religious resurgence.

This was about a century after our founding. It was added to paper money after a vote of Congress during the Red Scare of the mid-20th century, 1957. Under God wasn't part of Francis Bellamy's original Pledge of Allegiance, and that pledge wasn't written for the government.

Speaker 7: The guy wrote it for a local. Speaker 2: Youth magazine in 1892, and it kind of took off on its own. Under God was added to the pledge by Congress more than six decades later. By the way, Francis Bellamy, the Christian, he was also a socialist. I tell this to Christians and I can see their head just wants to explode.

Speaker 8: Boom. Speaker 2: He didn't think that Jesus would want a class system. He wouldn't want a hierarchy. He would want everybody equal in a socialist model. How would the founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson feel watching yet another shade of congregationalists trying to wield power and discriminate against other people? We are full of Danbury Baptists in this country, even the non-religious, right?

People who are worried, legitimately so, about being treated like second-class citizens or worse. Imagine if Jefferson watched Donald Trump on the day Trump suggested this was December of 22 that we might terminate our Constitution. Crazy. Crazy. If the man who rebelled against the King of England was shown the February 19th, 2025 image posted on the official White House account showing a crowned King Trump with a caption,

Long live the King. How would Jefferson feel about that? If Jefferson read the 900 pages of Project 2025, the detailed roadmap to stripping away the rights of so many and turning us into Gilead, He was witnessing the absolute horror on the face of free citizens, including many who are devoutly religious, and yet they get it. They understand

a personal God would not need a national God. Jefferson's Jesus often preached the message, the philosophy of humanity, charity, kindness. Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple, right?

Jefferson's Jesus told rich men to sell their stuff, give it to the poor, and follow him. That Jesus taught compassion to the least of these. I wonder how Jefferson and his secular Christ would have seen Donald Trump and Elon Musk and Jeff.

Speaker 7: Bezos, etc. Speaker 2: etc. Speaker 3: etc. Speaker 2: The Christian nationalist narrative is by design exclusive. Speaker 7: One group rules everybody else.

Speaker 2: As constitutional attorney and friend Andrew Seidel has said, Christian nationalism is inherently unequal. The goal is a legal system where conservative, heterosexual, white Christian men are protected by the law, but not bound by it. And everyone else is bound by the law, but not protected. When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. At this historical moment, my friends, the

few are trying to steal from the many. They want to rewrite our yesterday, today, and tomorrow in their favor. They are an active movement to betray the founders and to betray us, we the people. And in this moment, we stand up, we speak out, and we are pushing back.

Speaker 7: Unrest is surging all around us. Speaker 2: We can see it. Speaker 7: We can feel it. Speaker 2: We can hear it. Dissent is growing. Midterms are coming. I am proud to be in. Speaker 7: A room with a culture of resistors. Speaker 2: Through resistance, we have achieved many of the greatest human rights victories ever. Resistance can defeat injustice. It can build

us into better human beings. And as history has shown us, it can save the world. Resistance just might save us again. So let's go out there today and let's resist. Thank you all.

Speaker 7: Okay, I would like to bring my fellow speakers up to the stage. Speaker 2: I'm glad they turned their microphones off before they went to the restroom. That's always a technical detail that. Speaker 3: I turned one of them off. Speaker 2: I'm going to stand you guys over on this side, and I'm going to cue everything up on this side.

So I'll put you over here so we can leave the screen open. Now, I'm going to pull these up. You guys will see that you are... The emails and the comments that are yours will be noted by your name on the bottom left. Speaker 7: But I want you to read your own. Speaker 2: And I'm going to start with one of the comments.

I know all of us get wacky, crazy, sometimes abusive, sometimes unintelligible, just weird shit in our mail and DMs, right? Speaker 7: But activists, frontline activists seem to get a. Speaker 2: Lot more of it. And the stuff we get is so crazy that we will call each other and say, oh.

Speaker 7: My God, you have got to see this. Here's one that was sent to me just recently. Speaker 2: If Seth was placed in a position of authority over the masses, our society would grow to resemble North Korea jacked up on steroids. Speaker 7: I don't give a flying fuck how off topic I am either.

Speaker 2: I'm telling you, Seth is a certified fucking psychopath and is not the type of creep you would want around your children. So I will not be going to him for a character reference if I need one down the way.

The next one belongs to you, Aaron Raw. Speaker 6: Atheists state there are no absolutes, yet Aaron will die.

I don't know how many breaths you have left. Please repent of your sin and believe in Jesus. I cannot than atheists enough for their obsessions with the Bible, God, and Jesus.

Speaker 7: How many hell threats do you get? Is that common for you? Speaker 2: You turn or burn, repent of your wicked ways kind of thing? Speaker 6: I don't get a lot of threats. It's weird. You? I. Speaker 3: Yeah. You guys now have a job to do.

Speaker 2: R.N. Rudd, didn't you go and give a presentation in front of the Texas school board wearing devil horns?

Speaker 6: That was the Clark County City Council. So that was in Las Vegas. Speaker 12: Oh. Speaker 6: Which means I'm surprised you heard of it. Speaker 3: I'm surprised he's not fucking mayor. Speaker 2: Matt Dillahunty.

Speaker 3: Most gay guys don't believe in God. Matt Dillahunty is a prime example. Hey, Matt, if you believe in reason and logic, get your boyfriend pregnant. Matt is gay. That's why he hates God. God also hates Matt.

Speaker 2: Let me segue into the next one. Keep going, Matt. Speaker 3: You were obliterated and embarrassed. I'm very science-minded. LMAO, the amazing Randy. That's spelled wrong, by the way, and as a friend, that pisses me off. The Amazing Randy would be ashamed of you. You preach objective reality until it threatens your shrinking niche audience of trunes. There's no such thing as trans. It's gender dysphoria, autism, autogynephilia, and narcissism

piggybacking on a social contagion that is rapidly dying now. You fell for a fad, and that's your legacy. And she's hot as fuck. Speaker 2: Now, for those who are just now being introduced to you, they're going to need context. Speaker 3: Oh. My wife's trans, and right after people found out, I was gay. It surprised me because my previous wife was cis, and I've never been with a dude, but

I don't care. I'm gay, straight, pan, bi. It's weird because it used to be you're bald and you're fat. And when that stopped working for them, it became you're gay.

And I'm like, Okay, do you think for a second that if I was actually gay, I'd have any problem telling you? Speaker 2: It's really. Speaker 3: And the things that the in-their-head version of me get up to, that they send me the story, the version of me in their head has an awesome fucking life.

Speaker 6: LAUGHTER APPLAUSE What gets me is when they're looking for something to hit me with, they like to accuse me of being a Satanist. Speaker 2: Which you are. I got this one. This was a very concerned believer. I'm not here to judge, but I do this in my Michelle Duggar voice. I'm not here to judge, but saw some of your mocking of Christians.

Anytime you mock Christians, it's a direct wound to the sacred heart of Jesus. I am powerful enough to wound God. Yeah. Speaker 7: I have a devotion to his sacred heart. Heart emoji on fire. Speaker 2: Just think and store up your treasure in heaven.

Speaker 7: God bless you. There's a hundred, a dog? Praying. And then a picture of, I guess that's the Virgin Mary. I don't know what that's about. Have you noticed how. Speaker 2: Many of the messages that we get from fervent believers trying to save our souls?

Speaker 7: They are choking in emojis. Speaker 2: Have you noticed that? Choking. There was on Easter, I talked about this in my speech, Blood Cult. We were talking about how there was a church that dyed their outdoor fountain that had crosses and there was an actual fountain with water coming out. And on Easter, they dyed it blood red so that blood was coming out of

the crosses. And we were all creeped out. That's culty and nasty and bizarre. And you should have seen the comments. They were mostly blood drop emojis. Praise Jesus, blood drop, blood drop, blood drop. Speaker 6: I got a question about that one. She's posing with the American flag. Is she here legally?

Speaker 2: R and raw. Speaker 6: Gosh, I wish you would clean up yourself. You have a huge, what does that say? Speaker 2: Oh, IQ.

Speaker 6: You just a snippet of it to look in the mirror. So many more people would listen and watch your videos if you would just simply. Speaker 7: Cut your hair and shave, please. Speaker 6: I would like to personally respond to this person who sounds an awful lot like my stepdad.

Speaker 7: Oh, they love to talk about appearances. Speaker 2: I recently did an event in Tulsa, Oklahoma with Forrest Valky on stage. Speaker 7: Well, someone sent me this helpful comment. Speaker 2: I had noticed recently both you and your friend Forrest have very high foreheads.

Speaker 7: Another appearance one targeted to you, Mr. Speaker 2: Raw. Speaker 6: Are you dressed up like a pirate? A goth or a satanic priest? Speaker 3: Yes. Speaker 2: Matt Dillahunty.

Speaker 3: Oh, my God. My eyes aren't that good anymore. Matt Dillahunty is not even close to being as smart as he would like you to think he is. Debate are able to think and change on the fly. Yes, sir.

But he said it himself in one of his recently posted videos. How can I spin this? I can't convince you of God's existence, but no one can prove he doesn't as much as they can point to what appears to be contradiction in Scripture. An honest atheist today would tell you scientists have indeed changed things as well when it comes to the.

Theory of evolution, but that's okay. God has given every man his own ability to choose. He also said a heretic after the first and second admonition, leave them alone. Truth can be found. Not everyone who said, Lord, Lord unto me shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 6: He's right. Speaker 3: I am not smart enough to understand that. And I thought I would be. Speaker 2: Now, I told Matt about this. I offered to show this to you, but you said surprise me. So Matt gives no quarter on the line. He suffers no fools, right? Well, somebody goes on to many of the line shows and publishes every week the Dillahunty Zen report.

Speaker 3: Really? Speaker 2: I haven't seen this. where they gauge just how pissed off he gets at callers. Speaker 3: Is that an AI meme? Speaker 2: I don't know what that is. Speaker 3: That might be the dude.

Speaker 2: That may be for you back from when you had the much longer beard. Speaker 3: It could be. Speaker 2: Matt's mood swings between calm control and flashes of irritation, tracking closely with how honestly his callers engage. When theists and atheists alike come ready to reason, the conversation stays warm.

Fort Zen, standing untroubled. And Matt, generous with his patience, but dishonesty, dodging, and repetition wear him down fast, and his composure cracks hardest against callers who refuse to answer simple questions or hide behind buzzwords. instead of arguments. The profanity escalates in step with his irritation. Muting becomes his main weapon. And insults fly in both directions during the

roughest stretches. Still, Zen mostly holds. Speaker 11: Bruised more than broken as Matt oscillates between genuine warmth toward good faith callers and blistering foul-mouthed fury toward those determined to waste his time.

Speaker 2: Hey!

Speaker 3: I'll take it. It's accurate. Speaker 2: Oh, will you take this one? I'll take that one, too. Speaker 6: If you're not angry now, what the hell's wrong with you?

Speaker 2: Here's one I got. Oh, boy. Ah, your ridiculous statements about Christianity and particularly the Bible with no evidence made me laugh, blah, blah, blah. Second paragraph, my problem actually was the fact that you are the ugliest, hairiest, sweatiest, speckiest, baldest, smelliest, buck-toothed, jammy, dirtiest man I've ever set my poor Christian eyes on.

If I met your mother, I would slap her silly and rub her tummy. and possibly play the childhood favorite Duck, Duck, Goose with her. Of course, you'd be the goose because your big old fat beak, you dirty, grubby, hairy, unbelieving, beard-trimming, four-eyed man. Love you, mate. Praying for your nostril hair to decrease as it stuck out on my big screen.

Speaker 6: Is that how you are both the baldest and hairiest? Speaker 2: I don't understand. I'm going to skip this next one and go right to Aaron Raw. Hey, Mr. Speaker 6: Warlock, what will it take for you to understand that your fabricated and delusional evolution violates every laws of science?

Not only that, you still believe in fairy tales, a.k.a. evolution, comma, comma, comma, which is, of. Speaker 2: Course, your God. Speaker 1: Comma, comedian. Speaker 6: Your evolution throws out logic, and I don't know why there's dashes in there, but anyway, logic and meaning of cause and effect, not to mention energy cannot be created or destroyed.

Speaker 7: Then why do you believe it was? Speaker 6: Yet again, you still haven't answered my question as to, dash, what is the origin of life? Speaker 7: Dash, question mark. Speaker 6: And no, dash, maggots do not come out of a piece of meat on its own. Speaker 2: Dash, dash, dash. Speaker 6: Or is that, or is that you, is it that you still believe you can pull a rabbit out of a hat? Dash, question mark. Dash, dash, dash.

Speaker 7: What is the maggots out of meat? Speaker 2: Is that a conversation you had, or is that just a reference they brought? Speaker 6: That is a reference to spontaneous generation, which creationists constantly conflated with abiogenesis. It was disproved by Louis Pasteur, and not just by him, but by a couple of other people in the 19th century. And it's not something that atheists ever believed. Likewise, that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

We don't believe it was. I hear about this every day. They ask me, will you believe everything came from nothing? Speaker 2: No, you do. Speaker 3: To be fair, there's probably some atheist out there that believed it.

Speaker 2: Matt Dillahunty, I enjoyed pulling this one out of the comment archive. Speaker 3: Dude, does Matt ever make an argument? It's like watching a brain in a bowl quiver for two hours. At least there's a brain on my side.

Speaker 7: I can't tell if this next one is an insult or a compliment, Aaron. Speaker 3: Aaron Roth. Speaker 6: We'll split hell wide open, LOL. Speaker 3: I'll take it. Speaker 2: I enjoyed this one. I actually did this one on stage in Cincinnati when I was doing a show with No Illusions. A helpful Christian named Jim said, fuck you, asshole, God will judge you.

Speaker 3: Well. Speaker 7: I decided to respond to Jim. Speaker 2: I said, hey, quick note, Jim, with its first recorded use linked to the 14th century, asshole is one word, a compounded noun formulated as a single lexical unit, whether referring to either the anatomical feature of a body or an undesirable person. The British often replaced the first ass with an R, producing an insult which has arguably.

Speaker 7: More flair, arsehole. Speaker 2: Arse is derived from the Proto-Germanic word orsaz, which itself is drawn from the Indo-European oars, meaning buttocks. In the 1400s, Old English referred to an arse-hool, with the hool defined as an orifice in the body like a nostril or ear canal. As such, In the context of your threat, if I'm not the actual rectal terminus of the large intestine,

but am instead the negative space within it. Speaker 7: How might the whole itself be judged? Just trying to prepare myself. Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing Jesus' love. Thank you. Couple more real fast.

This one cracked me up for you, Oren. Speaker 6: Oren really needs to work on his Dillahunty Dodge. Speaker 7: What's a Dillahunty Dodge? Speaker 3: It's the one they were referring to earlier when they say I never make an argument. Speaker 7: Oh, I see. Matt, this one's all you, brother.

Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 7: JP, of course, Jordan Peterson? Speaker 3: JP is Jordan Peterson. Speaker 7: Now, you've debated Jordan on stage. Speaker 3: Well, kind of. We had an event on stage, and he said stuff. And the last thing he said was that he'd love to do this again, and then he ran down to his dressing room and hid, and I never heard from him again. So help me understand. Jordan Peterson is apparently much more successful than Matt, doing essentially

the same thing. It's obviously because they have a different audience. But I think the reason there's a different audience is because of marketing. Jordan Peterson has marketing. Matt doesn't. Jordan Peterson is much better looking, leaner, has hair, wears a suit and tie.

Speaker 13: Damn it. Speaker 3: Has a dramatic brow furrow. He has a PhD, and most importantly, he writes books that have publishers that give him access to mass media. Jordan Peterson has a team that organizes all that. Also, his message, while provocative, is basically gibberish and does not threaten the conservative establishment. I think Matt takes him way too seriously, possibly due to envy, so the solution is for Matt to write a book and then do some kind of publicity stunt. That way

he can get rich and reach a wider audience. I don't think he'll make the wider audience think, though. Speaker 2: Did you guys see when Jordan Peterson was doing that one-on-twenty debate and somebody cornered him and he said, I never said I was a Christian, and he just took it in the teeth for it?

Speaker 3: I did a video about it. Speaker 7: Did he ever pop his head back up after that happened? Speaker 3: No. Speaker 2: No? He's kind of tucked away and ran. Speaker 3: I did a video called Jordan Peterson Can't Handle One Atheist, Let Alone Twenty.

Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to finish this segment before I introduce Matt. I was invited via email to debate Kent Hoven, the young earth creationist and ex-con. Hello, Seth. I followed your work on The Thinking Atheist and appreciate your respectful and thoughtful approach to discussions on faith and skepticism. Kent Hovind has expressed interest in a debate on evolution and creationism.

We would be honored if you would consider participating in this civil dialogue aimed at informing a broad audience. Speaker 7: Please let me. Speaker 2: Know if you'd be open to learning more. Speaker 7: And I stared at the monitor for about five minutes, and.

Speaker 2: I clicked reply, and I typed these words. Good morning, I would rather put a campfire out with my face in Christ, Seth Andrews. I met Matt Dillahunty for the first time in person on the day that I first

showed my face as an atheist activist. I actually was hiding behind a microphone for two years. I hid behind the logo. People only knew my first name. I made no videos featuring my face. I was extricating myself from a very religious culture. I was scared. I didn't know what was going on, but I wanted to make a difference.

And so I was operating so that people knew me but kind of didn't know me until there was a freethought event in my hometown of Tulsa in 2011. And for the first time ever, I took the stage. And on that roster, I think he was the keynote, was Matt.

And I have not seen someone who does counter-apologetics as well. He speaks the language that believers speak, and he often understands that language much better than they do. There were a few things as satisfying as watching people throw verses at him. him that he actually knows better than they do.

He has helped to educate and inspire people to challenge their former thinking, to tap on the glass and to resist the culture that wants them to conform. And he is really making a difference out there and he is Our final formal speaker today, ladies and gentlemen, Matt Dillahunty.

Thank you guys so much. Speaker 3: I completely changed the talk that I was going to give. When Seth asked if I wanted to do this, I said yes, because I say yes. By the way, you guys, if you don't already know... What's that? Speaker 8: Okay. Speaker 3: If you guys don't already know... I'm a lazy son of a bitch. And I show up and talk and Seth does all the work and all the planning for all these and always has been. So everybody give Seth

a huge round of applause. When he first reached out to me, I had a brilliant idea and I was like, hey, it's been a few years since we've done this. Let me give a talk about what I've learned in the intervening years. Let's catch up with the folks that we haven't seen as much. And I was going to talk

about debates and how debates have changed, how there's fewer serious people who are willing to engage, how they seem to be, the more sincere apologists seem to be focused on Muslims and ex-Muslims because they can't make any headway with skeptics.

Speaker 2: And then I was going to talk. Speaker 3: About how there are Philbros who are obnoxiously just calling into every call-in show and how they're not real philosophers and they're not real apologists. And instead, I literally recorded that video last night for my Atheist Debates Patreon channel. It'll be up on YouTube to everybody. There's no reason to do that. And then how Jubilee and some others turn debates into like sports, but like sports entertainment. So they're WWE events that are just awful. And how there's

so many bigots and the rise of MAGA has given them permission literally Wednesday night on the show. We had a guy call in. I don't know who saw it. Anybody watch the show Wednesday night? Speaker 8: Thank you. Speaker 3: He sat there and waited. And when he realized that I had already caught on to him, he just went into the Heil Hitler, racist, N-word, K-word, everything. And how the...

The focus on all of these conversations is political and it's exhausting. And we're all tired. And I was going to talk about lessons I learned about trusting the wrong people or the wrong organizations. And then I realized this talk sucks. This is like, nope, I wouldn't want to listen to this. I sound like just the whiniest person ever and the most frustrated and exhausted person. And like, I have no hope. And then I went and talked

to my therapist and realized that's because that's how it is. And I was trying to think of something better to do. And recently, someone suggested that maybe we're doing all this wrong and that we need to focus on something else entirely. And something happened this week that fundamentally changed everything about this talk. So you're welcome. And I'm sorry. Imagine being

so widely hated that every time anybody dies, the bulk of the world is disappointed that it isn't your obituary that they're reading. And then imagine that you're pretty much forced to order the flags at half-mast when the most universally loved being dies while you're president and you have to lie that she liked you. Apologists take note. The

best argument for belief in God no longer exists. Dolly Rebecca Parton Dean died this last week at 80. If you type her name into Google right now in the search bar, click on the top result, there'll be a little butterfly that shows up and it spawns butterflies over and it says, we will always love you. I don't know anybody who's gotten anything like that from Google, but She was universally loved. This map shows that in the

red states, she was revered statewide. She was beloved nearly by all in the blue states, deeply cherished in the green, warmly adored in the orange, and above all human beings in Tennessee. For those of you who are fans of the MCU, she was our anchor being, so stand by to be pruned. We are screwed. Her death might also be the new strongest argument against a loving God. She

died after a quick fight with cancer, as if we didn't need another reason to say fuck cancer. When she was born, the doctor was paid for her delivery with a bag of oats. She became the queen of country and perhaps the queen of this country. She made $ 10 million when Whitney Houston recorded I Will Always Love You.

And she didn't keep any of it. She took that $ 10 million and she went to an impoverished black community and built a place that she called the house that Whitney built. And she did not tell anybody that she had done this for 30 years. She had a trans man as a limo driver that even when they tried to get her to fire him, she kept him for 30 years. And then she thanked him in the notes

on one of her albums. She constantly gave money to people who were battled by storms, tragic victims of fires and floods. and she gave books to kids to inspire literacy. She was unapologetically queer-friendly at every opportunity, and the rumors

around her never ended and never mattered. When asked about folks dressing up as her in drag, she noted that if she hadn't been born Dolly Parton, she would have been a drag queen. She was kicked out of a hotel on her first trip to New York because they thought she was a hooker, an image that she had carefully cultivated intentionally by styling her entire image after the

town tramp. She patterned kindness and generosity. She turned down the presidential medal of freedom three times, twice from Trump because he's shit, and once from Biden to avoid appearing political, partisan.

She was a songwriter, musician, a singer, storyteller, entertainer, businesswoman, collaborator, philanthropist. She probably could have been the first woman billionaire in the United States if she hadn't spent so much time just giving it away. She just gave and gave. I've loved Dolly all my life. That doesn't surprise too many people,

because so did everybody else. I'm never going to be as good. Speaker 14: As she was. Speaker 3: We all know that ship sailed, right? I'm just not quite. But I am going to spend the rest of the time that I have left trying not to be like her, but to help somebody else be like her. To create the sort of world that can find and foster... the

first secular version of Dali, or maybe the second. We'll see by the time I get to the end of this. The next universally loved person should be a godless atheist, free-thinking, secular humanist who is kind and loving and who focuses on education and inspiration, on compassion and equality. We need a new universally loved person, and they need to be,

if possible, unshackled from religion There are great religious people, but they're great despite the trappings and the dogma of their religions. Speaker 7: They cherry pick. Speaker 3: They're the ones who focused on turn the other cheek instead of if a man lies with a man. They're the ones who focused on love thy neighbor and ignored the calls to enslave, exterminate, and evict them. They're the

ones whose God could never demand sacrifice, never tolerate slavery, never prescribe that a man be punished by having his newborn killed and his wives publicly raped by his oldest son. Speaker 2: These people have.

Speaker 3: Their own blinders. They're focused on a fictional ideal goodness that can never be compatible with the gods of the Torah, the Bible, or the Koran. And it's our job to show them that they can keep all of that good and that it is most compatible with humanism. Dolly Parton embodied the best principles of secular humanism, and she tied it to the Christianity of her upbringing. I will not

dishonor her preference by labeling her as a secular humanist, but a Christian humanist seems to. Speaker 7: Fit very well. Speaker 3: She was raised in a Pentecostal religion that she said had been crammed down her throat when she was a child and that she didn't want to portray her faith that way to other people. In 2018, Parton said that she believed in God and that he helps and guides

her and that she talks to him every day. And she said that her faith is very important and that she believes Jesus loves her, and that she's never ashamed of her religion. And she said she's not trying to cram it down anybody else's throat, but that she just thinks everybody's got to have something to believe in. In an interview with the New Humanist magazine in 2024, she said, quote, whether you believe in God or not, whether you call

it Mother Nature or Father Time or Higher Wisdom, you need to believe in yourself. and you need to believe there's a force that can push you and lead you on. And she added, I'm not a religious fanatic. I wouldn't even say I'm religious, though I grew up with that background.

I'll honor Dolly's actions, her kindness, by saying that the principles she had were not improved nor dependent upon Christianity. And it's our job to show the world, if we survive the fascist regime, climate change, nuclear annihilation, the next pandemic, and the AI disinformation age, sorry, I call it like it is, that those values are the right ones no

matter the label. She fought illiteracy in honor of her father because he couldn't read. That's the best honor thy father I could imagine. She fought for LGBTQ rights because of her friends and neighbors who she loved. She worked with Lily Tomlin. I like to imagine that they loved each other more than was obvious, but, you know, I'm

not trying to go down the porn route. I'm just saying. She helped foster art and amusement and charity to make the world brighter for the exact same reason, because she loved her neighbors. She took seriously the idea that only God should judge. She donated a million dollars for COVID vaccine and publicly got vaccinated in order to encourage others.

I want a world where a map like that is drawn for an out atheist. We have a lot of things to work on. There's a disaster around every corner and we might not survive. But Dolly decided when she was young that she wanted to be rich and famous.

And when it happened, she decided it would be bad form to complain. And that's one of the reasons why nobody says anything bad about her. But she also realized she should never forget where she came from. When her town, I think it was Sevierville, built a statue of her, she went to her dad, all proud and Maybe a little too proud. And her dad said that he was

proud of her and he loved her. And he told her, remember, that while her fans would appreciate her as an icon, to the pigeons, she was just another outhouse. We have to decide that we want.

Speaker 6: A better world. Speaker 3: And we have to work for it. I won't be doing it for religion, but I'll do it for the lessons I learned From Dolly. We need more Dolly, less Donald. There's a pastor named John Elder. I have to switch over because I'm going to read you what this guy said.

I was really mad. John Elder said, Dolly Parton is most likely in hell. She's a tragic example of what life looks like claiming to be a Christian, but never truly making Jesus Lord of your life. She described God less in strict theological terms and more as a universal energy, saying in a 1980 parade interview that God is a

feeling within you and a greater, higher energy present in everyone. Speaker 2: Wrong. Speaker 3: She was also a massive supporter of the satanic LGBTQ plus movement. She was a universalist, Basically, she believed all humans would make it to heaven. Her worst belief, her worst belief, was that there was an inherent good within humans.

She embraced immodesty, liberal social justice movements, and quit going to church decades ago. Sadly, she found out today that Jesus is in fact Lord over all creation, including her. Speaker 2: She had no excuse. Speaker 3: She knew the gospel, but chose to reject it. Jesus said these terrifying words. Many will come to me and say, Lord, Lord, look what I did for you. And I will respond and say, I never knew for you. May that never

be you. Turn to Christ today in full repentance of your sin. Get plugged into a local church and start enjoying the fruit of true Christianity and a close relationship with God. True inner peace awaits you. Please don't repeat Dolly's eternal mistake. That's the love of some Christians never

ceases to amaze me. I was shocked, but not too shocked. Because from a biblical standpoint, as the kid who grew up a Southern Baptist who was going to be a preacher, I know that from a doctrinal standpoint, he ain't wrong. Oh, there's lots of disagreements and arguments. There's lots of different versions of Christianity. But I pointed out before that Westboro

Baptist Church, as awful as they are, are on firmer biblical footing than any gay-friendly, queer, rainbow church in the world. And yet I know who I'd rather be with. Her version of Christianity... is demonstrably better than his by every measure,

better for everyone, and one whose principles we should strive to make true as his hateful version gets scrubbed from the hearts and minds of every person on this planet.

And if there is a God who sides more with that pastor than with Dolly Parton, we have a duty to everyone to struggle together to rise up and fight that monster even if it ends all of us. That pastor is free to enjoy his hate, his bigotry, his ignorance, his false sense of superiority, to preach and try to poison the world. As for me and my house, we will listen to Dolly.

Speaker 2: Thank you. Coming up after the break, audience Q & A, and you're going to hear the segment where we give away sacrilegious prizes. So much more to come next. Thank

you so much for supporting me and this channel and the work via Patreon. And if you are not a patron, I would love to have your support. With my great appreciation, go to patreon.com slash Seth Andrews. This is the Unholy Trinity Reunion event from the Fort Worth Botanic Garden Auditorium, August 29th. I want to say, if I may... A

huge thank you to the sponsors of tonight's event. First of all, if you do not know about recovering from religion,

RFR is an organization that I wish had been there when I was deconstructing. The sleepless nights, the shame, the concern, what am I going to lose? Speaker 7: Who am I? What's my life going to look like? Speaker 2: To have been able to reach out to chat, to talk, and even anonymously with an organization about my journey and not be told what to think or judged, but just listened to. RFR is the real thing. And you don't

have to be deconstructing. You can actually be out, but still be navigating some challenges in your life as a free thinker. And they are a resource for you. Or if you know somebody who's navigating doubt, point them here, recoveringfromreligion.org. Also, Godless Engineer. I don't know if you've subscribed to John

Gleason's channel. Oh, he brings the science and a little sarcasm and a lot of good humanism to his discussions about living goodly without God. And he's become a brother of mine and he and Casey have been You don't see them behind the scenes, but they have been the glue.

Speaker 7: That has helped to hold tonight together. And I just, if you would give them a huge round of applause for me, please.

Speaker 2: Go and like and subscribe, youtube.com slash godlessengineer. The Metroplex Atheists are here. Plugging into a local group. A lot of people think, well, I left one herd, you know, or one flock, but the truth is we need each other, and I think life is often better.

Speaker 7: We're more effective with each other. Speaker 2: And a lot of people who leave a close-knit religious community or they're just craving connection, human connection, they want to engage with each other and with their communities. Organizations like the Metroplex Atheists are wonderful. It's a great option if you are in the Fort Worth area, MetroplexAtheists.org. And then, coming up in Huntsville, Alabama, it's the next big conference on the horizon.

Speaker 7: If you want to travel, it's going to be amazing. Speaker 2: In Alabama, of all places, they're doing a free thought convention in Alabama. called Rocket City Reason. Tickets are on sale. I'm going to be speaking there. Forrest Valky is going to be there. I mean, a.

Speaker 7: Huge, fun lineup. Speaker 2: And you can go to rocketcityreason.com and find out more. So just make a note to visit that and try to get to Huntsville coming up October the 23rd through the 25th. Speaker 4: Okay. Speaker 2: Let's take our seats, I guess, gentlemen. And let's see what...

Let's see what everybody else has to say. Where's John at? I think John is probably. Speaker 7: Going to be my. Speaker 2: He's right there. Speaker 7: My rover. My roving microphone. Speaker 3: Should we do the see no evil, hear no evil?

See no Jesus. Speaker 6: All right. Speaker 7: I'm going to probably... Let's see, how do I want to do this? Speaker 2: I only have the. Speaker 7: We only have three mics. It's a small enough room. Speaker 2: If you would have them speak into this for camera, and then we'll just have them speak loudly.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I may have to come and get the mic from you. Speaker 2: We'll go ahead and use this for their Q & A. Speaker 3: Okay? Speaker 2: So speak loudly into here and just have this one close to them. Speaker 9: Okay. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 7: Does anybody have a comment or question? Speaker 13: So we have a first grade daughter. who just started school a couple weeks ago. And in the school, in the classroom, there's a big Ten Commandments poster.

Speaker 2: And I was curious if you could. Speaker 13: Give any advice on legal resources that I could reach out to as a parent to potentially, I don't know if we need to file a lawsuit, what the next steps are for us to take some sort of action against the school.

Speaker 6: I think there's already at least two families that are doing a lawsuit at this moment. I don't know if you can contact or collaborate with them. Unfortunately, I don't know how to contact them. I saw a story that there were two people that were trying to challenge this. I don't know how they would challenge it. I'm not a lawyer.

Speaker 3: So I do know because Andrew Seidel messaged me. And that's why on a recent episode of the show, which clearly you don't watch. But that's okay, because I'm not caught up on his stuff either. If you go to au.org, they filed with the Supreme Court specifically. And there are two YouTube videos up, one for the Lowe family and

one for the Fixler family. These are two of the families that are joined with AU to file suit against this law in Texas. And that's who you need to reach out to, au.org slash 10C, I think it is.

But if you just Google au.org Ten Commandments case, you'll find it. Speaker 6: And I wish that somebody would remind the courts that the First Amendment contradicts the First Commandment. Speaker 3: True, true. Speaker 7: I see a hand here in the middle.

Speaker 15: I just have a suggestion on the 10 Commandments thing. Anyone who has a child in elementary school, tell your child to ask their teacher what adultery is. Speaker 2: Ask your teacher what adultery is. I have a question on the 10 Commandments.

Speaker 10: What is adultery? Speaker 15: And when they can't answer it, it'll follow up. Just get them to start asking. Speaker 10: You can probably do it on the next show. Speaker 3: I was just going to ask her if she wanted to come on the show. Speaker 2: Hi. Speaker 16: It's a great pleasure to be here and.

Speaker 2: Meet you guys. Speaker 16: I found your YouTube channels when I was doing a little research on... I was writing a book about submission, religious submission, and I found busy debates that led me to the line, and I.

Speaker 2: watched AP's experience and. Speaker 16: Just watched Matt Dillahunty go from this very nice guy to. Speaker 15: A ball of fusion reaction just waiting to explode. Speaker 16: So thank you guys for all of you. I've learned so much about the Bible. I was raised Christian, Catholic, but I like to consider myself now an I don't careist.

I don't care if there are any gods or not because none has been demonstrated yet. There was something else you said, Matt, in one of the programs I think you hosted with Promise that was released two weeks ago, on. Speaker 2: The 8th, I believe.

Speaker 16: And you said, oh, how I wish there was a way to teach people critical thinking and how to reason through things. Well, I would like to say that I have a nonprofit that we just started called the Reflective Human Program. And we have a program that we just started called Skills Beyond the Bell. It is a year-long

program that teaches high school students from ages 14 to 18 life skills. And a lot of the things that we talk about is what we discuss here. So I always say that the religious play the long game. And I think As secular humanists, we need to learn to do the same. My vision is that someday every high

school student in the country goes through this program. And we have been receiving a lot of interest because of the topics that we talk about. And I am searching for sponsors to sponsor this. kids who are from low-income families who would like to be in the program, and I get a lot of those as well. Funny enough, we got some help from HEB, and we're able to

sponsor some kids into the program with that. So we're looking for more people who are able to donate. We need volunteers as well, and we need to fill our executive board as well. So we're looking for militant secular humanists to join us who.

Speaker 3: I'm in. Can you send me all the details and I'll put it out on next Wednesday's show. Yeah, this has to happen. Stuff like this has to happen. And I apologize, I didn't catch everything that you said about the name of the organization. So if you want to get with me afterwards, we can write it down and you can just send it to me in email.

Speaker 6: I also wanted to remind you, you said you don't care if God exists or not. You don't know what that's called. There is a word for it. You're an apotheist. Speaker 3: There you go. Speaker 16: I just used to say I don't care-ist. Speaker 6: And since you mentioned the militant, I want to give you the slogan for the militant agnostic. I don't know and you don't either.

Speaker 12: Hey, I just wanted to say thank you very much. I've loved watching your debates on YouTube. Aaron, when you poured a beer talking to Mormon fundamental people, I watched Seth Andrew, I watched Mr. Dillahunty just tearing up people.

It's been an incredible experience to watch that. But I guess as someone who's outside of the activism space and is more of a spectator to this, how do you guys deal with the gish galloping and the grandolini bashing And circular logic, I mean, I see you reach this point of frustration, and I think I've experienced that myself, just watching the same caller. Are you making progress? Are things getting better?

Speaker 3: How do you deal with a. Speaker 12: Lot of, like, you're dealing with somebody that doesn't have the basic skills to function in logic. How can you logic with someone that can't be logical? Speaker 6: Having some past experience with this, the frustrating thing is always having to have the same argument, explaining the same thing, because nobody gets, as you said, they don't have the basics.

They don't even understand what logic is. So that's the big point of frustration. But also having argued the same thing all the time, we know what the counter arguments are. And so we also know whether the person that's asking the questions, whether they're being sensitive, because there are sincere believers and we can help them. But then there's also people that argue in bad faith. Very often they know that their position is wrong. I've had a few people admit to me that they believe anyway. They know it's

not really true, but they're going to believe it anyway. And there's a whole lot of people who just play a game. So it's a bad faith argument. Maybe they know their position's bullshit. Maybe they don't. But they're not playing to learn anything. They're not playing to hear the other person. And that's another thing that's frustrating. Have you ever dealt with anyone like that?

Speaker 7: I don't know. Speaker 2: I play a little game sometimes when we get calls where... I guess where they are leading. Oh, this will be a look at the trees argument. And then we continue. And 10 minutes later, it's like, but look at all around you, the beauty. And there's part of me that's like, yes, look at the trees.

Speaker 3: Yes. Speaker 2: Or where do your morals come from? That's an oldie. Speaker 7: You've just borrowed Christian morality. Speaker 2: You're shoplifting your values from our religion and making believe it's all yours. Speaker 7: And, and it's true. Speaker 2: After a while, I did a greatest hits of apologetics arguments, you know, the complexity of the eye and Hitler was an atheist. And, and if it wasn't true, why has it been around for thousands of years? And why do

so many people believe it? And I love the people who do the complexity and the miracle of the eye argument, especially the apologist at the Discovery Institute where scientifically developed prescription lenses for vision correction when they're making the beauty of the eye argument. I myself, you know, I have my moments of frustration, but I have fun with it.

I am not engaging necessarily. I do hold out hope we may. Speaker 7: Create a crack that lets in the light with a collar. Speaker 2: But if you go to a debate and Matt's on stage with, I don't know, JP or somebody, how many times in a debate has one interlocutor looked at the other and said, you know what, you're absolutely right. I'm now convinced I'm going to reverse my position and absolutely turn everything over and we're going to go frolic off into Reasonville together.

Speaker 7: It just doesn't happen. Did it happen? Wait a minute, actually. Speaker 3: Maybe twice. Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, how wrong am I on this? Speaker 6: Three times. No, he just did it.

Speaker 2: A debate between Christopher Hitchens and a rabbi in New York changed my life. Speaker 7: I was watching in the wings. Speaker 2: The two on stage were arguing a position and both of them weren't going to say, oh, I agree and split, right?

But I was able to watch from a position of relative safety and see arguments presented. And that presentation of the arguments helped me to be emboldened to go and explore it further in my own life. But I, as a good scientist now, must correct my... my claim that it never happens that people, interlocutors on stage, change their mind because I've been presented with new evidence.

Speaker 7: What is the footnote? What is your source material, Matt Delonte? Speaker 3: So a couple of quick things. I'm not quite the asshole that a lot of people think I am. Speaker 2: Yes, he is. Speaker 3: And I've been training him. There are two videos that I did yesterday. One of them is called Kevin Deserved Better.

And it's about a caller from Sunday who understood absolutely nothing about nothing. And I did not treat him well, but he deserved better from the education system and from me. And John was on there as well. I called John out for like half a second because as soon as he mentioned bits, John was like, you don't know what a fucking. And I was like, OK.

Speaker 2: And John's right. Speaker 3: He didn't. But Kevin deserved better. I did another video yesterday, which I think I mentioned earlier, which is called The End of Philbros, and it has tips in there to expose what the Philbros are actually doing and how to shut them down across the board. The two examples, one, I debated a Satanist on whether or not religion was a force for good in society, and after the opening statements, he agreed with me, and then we just had fun the rest of the time after that. The other time

wasn't a debate on stage, but when I first met Neil deGrasse Tyson in I went up to him to apologize to him because I had called him a douche on the show. And we got into it. And he was poking me in the shoulder.

Speaker 2: And he's a big dude. Speaker 3: I thought I was going to have a bruise. I mean, you don't want to fuck with him. And then once I explained what happened, he looked at me and goes, OK, I get it. You're right. Tell your fans I said it was OK to call me a douche. So I'm going to count that as a second one.

Speaker 2: I'm going to give this mic back to John, and he's going to go find a questionnaire. I'm going to make you run back up here. I'm needed again, brother. Speaker 3: We have friends in the back with their hands. Speaker 6: Up, I see. Somebody told me once that when they were debating with me online, not on stage, they're just having a conversation. But they said that I changed their mind in the course of the argument, but they didn't know how to admit that in the moment. Two years later, I get an email saying that that happened.

Speaker 3: Okay, so I do agree. It's usually kind of often the same discussion here and there. Is there anybody that you have not debated that you feel has at least somewhat of a novel. Speaker 6: Way of looking at things or would make an interesting discourse that you just have not been able to have a discussion on that you would kind of want to?

Speaker 3: Me? Speaker 2: No. All right, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to set these guys up. Give me, because I am thinking of one now and I want to tell the story. What is the worst, if not one of the worst arguments for God that you've ever heard? Like the one that you talk about at parties, the one that makes your head explode. What is, what's one of

the biggies? Sign. Nah. Speaker 4: Banana. Speaker 3: I'm gonna cheap out and go with something that I literally heard Sunday and talked about in the video about Kevin. Kevin said that the evidence that Jesus actually rose from the dead is that people stopped sacrificing animals. And they did that because he clearly rose from the dead and

they no longer needed to sacrifice animals. And Kevin couldn't grasp, I'm giving you guys an advanced look at the video, That just because people believe something doesn't mean it actually happened. And the example that I wish I would have come up with on the show is from my real life. My dad bought a pickup truck. And on the first day when I was getting into it, my hand got slammed in the door of the truck.

Speaker 2: And I lost it. I hated the truck. Speaker 3: I thought the truck was out to get me. And I refused to get in the truck. My dad sold that truck. It was a used truck. He had bought a new one. He sold that truck and bought another one, traded it for one. Because I would not go near that truck. And I wish I could ask Kevin, does the fact that I thought the truck was trying to kill me mean the truck was actually trying to kill me?

Because that's the argument that he made. Speaker 2: You got one? Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't have like one that stands out that's one unique argument. Speaker 12: Okay. Speaker 6: I don't have like where one particular person brought up a unique argument. The argument that bothers me the most is the morality argument. Because the Bible deliberately never describes what morality is. It's obedience is what the Bible teaches.

So when they tell me that I'm stealing their morality, no, you don't have a morality. Literally, you're just told to obey. And when God says, thou shalt not kill, on the very next page it says, kill every man and his brother. So it's just divine commandment, which again, that's not morality.

Have a definition of what it means to be moral, or how would you know whether an act is moral or not? When you understand that, then we have morality. Speaker 2: All right, well, we had somebody call the line who said that she was an expert in the field, I think we were talking about psychology, because she had two doctorates.

Speaker 7: And I said, oh, where did you get your degrees from? Speaker 2: And she said, oh, well, my PhDs were given to me by the creator of all things.

Speaker 3: Is he accredited? Speaker 2: I went down that road. Speaker 7: I said, well, are there Pell Grants for that? I mean, how is this funded? Speaker 2: But the best, and I mentioned this from the stage in Cincinnati, so if you've heard it before, forgive me.

There's a YouTuber named I think he's still around, and he made the argument with a straight face that the craters of the moon prove Noah's flood. Because Because when the firmament dissolved and the waters above the firmament fell to the earth and flooded the earth, the water came down.

Speaker 7: And splashed with such velocity. Speaker 2: That water splashed back up into space and froze in the cosmos and traveled all the way to the moon and created the craters of the moon. And of course, you're thinking what I'm thinking. What about the other side of the moon?

Speaker 7: I had to explain that. Speaker 2: But I mentioned this to Gutsick Gibbon, who is a primatologist and a genius, and she has a wicked sense of humor. And I told her about it. She's like, oh, we've heard that one. In the scientific community, we have a name for it. We call it lunar bukkake. Raise your hand if you don't know what Bukkake.

Speaker 3: Oh my God. Speaker 9: Hi, can you hear me okay? Hi, my name's Laura. My parents kind of accidentally... They kind of indoctrinated me into atheism without realizing.

Speaker 3: It, I think. Good for them. Speaker 9: I didn't grow up very religious, and that's important for this story. I have a beautiful girlfriend, soon to be fiance, who. Speaker 2: We've started a life with. Speaker 9: Yes, thank you. And I have a best friend of a few years who, ever since we graduated college, has really dived into Christianity. And obviously, this is someone that

I've loved, who has loved me, and I respect, and we're extremely close together. like my soul sister. Recently, I started to feel kind of a shift between us once I mentioned that, you know, we're actually going to be getting married and starting a life together. And so I brought it up and I was like, hey, I don't know what to do about, you know, your faith. It makes me uncomfortable that you think that I'm like, I need to be saved or I'm a sinner or whatever.

And I told her I don't subscribe to Christian ideology. So, you know, those things kind of. Speaker 2: Don't matter to me. Speaker 9: But now I'm kind of at a hard point where I don't know how to further the friendship or call it off because she will not go over. She'll not say like she'll just say I love you, even though this and that. And I'm not there to like. try to convince her otherwise, I don't think that I will.

And I know a lot of you deal with a lot of crazy people on your shows, but this is kind of someone I have to deal with in my real life who I do care about, so I don't know how to face that. Speaker 6: Plenty of Christians tell me that they love me when it is clear they do not. And there is no hate like Christian love.

Speaker 7: Can I have a mic? Speaker 3: So first of all, thanks and good luck. When somebody tells you that they love you, they love you despite, that's not love. They're still getting in the thing that bugs them. Now, given what I talked about tonight, what

I'd ask her is, is she a better person than Dolly? The other thing is to say, You can say, I understand where you're coming from because I love you despite the fact that you talk to me like that. And I'll keep loving you despite the fact that you seem to put this weird condition on it because I value that.

But while we're together, we need to set that aside and just be us. And you need to respect me and my partner. or you're just a bad, toxic influence in my life, and I don't want to cut you off, but I want to be happy. And you have to put up barriers like that.

Speaker 6: Also, I don't know if I misunderstood what you said. Speaker 7: Did you say soon-to-be fiancé? Speaker 6: Because I'm wrestling with that. Speaker 2: Soon-to-be fiancé means you're proposing tonight at the event. Speaker 7: I mean, what's going on? No, we're excited for both of you.

Speaker 2: Congratulations. You're looking at a guy who has no contact with his mother. And I don't spend a lot of time with a lot of my blood relatives. It's amazing how what you learn about people when you declare out loud that you're not going to live your life their way.

This room is filled with people. I don't mean just religion, but I mean whatever. The job you took where you decided to go to college or not go to college or Whatever choice, whatever fork in the road, and you made a decision based on your own values and desires as an individual, and somebody in the family tree played the family card and said, uh-uh, that's not how we raised you. That's not what we expect. And you said, look, did you raise a clone? Did you raise a mirror of yourself, a reflection of yourself, rather, an echo of yourself?

Or did you raise an individual? And you learn a lot about people whenever you start to make those sort of authentic life decisions. And many times in my life, I found they forced my hand. And I had to come to terms with the fact that respect starts with self-respect.

And I had to make a determination as to whether or not they were committing a boundary violation. Speaker 7: That was toxifying my own journey. Speaker 2: And so I set a boundary and I said, I never show up at your door and tell you how to live. I don't speak to you in judgment. Your life is yours to live. Your path is yours to walk.

All I ask is that you allow me, you realize that I am living my life on my terms, doing my best to be authentic. If there is a God, that's between me and God. But this is not your life to live. And if you continue to say and do X, Y, or Z.

Speaker 7: there will be a consequence. Speaker 2: And for me, that consequence was, I will remove you from my circle and we will not have contact with each other. That is the last thing I want for you. But I will say that if you find someone in your life, and this is for anybody who is crossing over a threshold and a boundary that they have no business being in, playing the family card, the friend card, the I love you card, the Jesus card, the hellfire card, whatever, they force your hand. You have every right to say,

If you cross it again, here's the consequence. It's on you as to whether or not it kicks in. And then we may end up grieving the loss of that friendship. But we learned something about them. And we respected something about ourself. And I think an authentic life is a gift that you give to yourself every single day.

Speaker 7: And for me, it's been worth it. Speaker 3: Thank you. Laura, can I ask one question? Does she get along with Bella? Speaker 15: Yes. Speaker 3: It'll work out.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it's been probably a decade since I've talked to my brothers. Speaker 3: My brother called me tonight. I love him so much. He called me for proof of life. Speaker 10: So, I want to hear an experience where you guys feel.

Speaker 2: When your communications and your. Speaker 17: Talks with others who are believers, how you were able to convince them to maybe question or doubt or maybe your ability to give your thoughts on the subject really made them break the ice and start questioning things.

Speaker 2: What tactics are we using? Speaker 10: No, like a specific time. Like a caller that you knew you broke through. Like for me, Matt was for me. Now, I've never been a believer, but I've seen him in the way that he operates. Speaker 2: He breaks through to people. Sometimes it ain't always pretty.

Speaker 3: But can I do it not pretty right now? You're the one that can answer your own question. I don't know what I there are people who tell me I've changed their mind, but it's going to be different for everybody. And whatever it was for you. might not work for somebody else. For every single person that is like, oh, Matt, you said something and it changed my mind. I'm like, great.

There were 20,000 other people that heard me say it and they didn't change their mind. You changed your own mind. I just happened to be there to say what it was. So I can't say what it is. All I can do is keep doing it and keep trying to say, here's why I did what I did. And when I fuck it up like I did last week with Kevin, do a video explaining why I did. But if you really want to know, Like, don't do any hands, because I would feel bad. But find the people who are like, oh, this person changed my mind. And it doesn't matter if

it's me or Seth or whoever, and just say, what did they do? What was the tipping point? Because the way our brains work, the first time you hear something, it's just weird. And the second time you hear something, it's, oh, wait, what was that? I think I've heard that. And the third time, it's a pattern. Maybe for you, I just happen to be the third or fourth one along. And maybe that's all it was, is people saying the same things in slightly different ways. Maybe somebody doesn't like a

bald guy. Maybe they don't like dudes. Good for you. Too many of us anyway. I don't know why these guys are up here. But you never know. And for each person, it's going to be different. And so mine's pretty much a shotgun approach. If I met you out in the world, I doubt we would have had the conversation.

that would have changed their mind only because I tend to do it in front of an audience. I tend to do it where people are watching because whoever I'm talking to, and this kind of gets to his question about who I want to debate, I don't pick who I want to debate. I prepare for the topic, not the person. I think it's a mistake to prepare for the person. Similarly, when I'm on the call with somebody, I'm not specifically trying to change their mind. I'm trying to present what I think should change their mind, but it's actually targeting the thousands of people out there who

think the same thing they do, but they're not under the gun. They're out there just listening and they're like, yeah, you tell them, oh, wait, that was a bad argument. Speaker 8: Oh, no, no. Speaker 3: He's going to say, yes, I believe that. Speaker 2: Oh, no, no. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Speaker 3: Ooh. And you feel all of the pain and of being publicly humiliated for believing something ridiculous, even if that wasn't the intent in any of it, but you don't

bear the roadblock of having made a public profession because we know as soon as somebody publicly declares what their position is, they are less likely to change their mind and more likely to double down in the face of evidence to the contrary. We know this. It's the reason teenagers are brats.

Speaker 7: Well, I like the Socratic method. Speaker 2: I ask questions. Speaker 7: It puts the burden more on them. Speaker 2: I used to walk in with data points, and, of course, the amygdala fires up. Speaker 7: It's fight, flight, or freeze. They double down. Speaker 2: Identity beliefs, right, where the facts bounce off. They have a reason, a rationale. They stare even more convinced. But I remember I was talking to one guy, and this guy and I worked together in Christian radio back in the 90s. We were both FM disc jockeys for a

Christian radio station. And he discovered me years later. Hey, whoa, wow, you've been on a path. Oh, you have no idea. You have been on a path. And so we had a conversation and I said, let me ask you a question. I said, you know, Christianity being an Abrahamic faith, right?

The Abraham, would you say Abraham is a hero of the Christian faith? Well, yeah, I would say that. And I said, look, Let me tell you something that kind of bothers me. Speaker 7: I said, if God. Speaker 2: Appeared to you the way he appeared to Abraham, and he asked you to lay your son on an altar and drive a knife into his chest until he was dead, would you obey? Would you have the faith and obedience of Abraham?

Speaker 7: Would you do it? And I remember he blinked. And he said, no, no, no. Speaker 2: Well, he sent me a message like it was within the year. I think it was six, nine months later. And he said, I couldn't get that question out of my head. And he is, I won't call him atheist, but he is a deconstructed Christian. He has walked away

from the fundamentals of his faith, his former faith. He is now looking at other Bible stories through fresh lenses. Speaker 7: And it was a question. Speaker 2: It wasn't an attack. I wasn't blaming him. I didn't call him stupid or sheeple. I just said, I've got this concern and I want to know what would you do if God commanded you the way he commanded this great biblical hero? And then it just simmered in his brain.

And he was the one who reached out to me. I don't know what he is today. I don't care what he labels himself, but the difference is, and the important thing is, is that he's starting to ask the hard questions and expecting better answers. Speaker 6: I was having a discussion with somebody who was traveling with me once upon a time, and she's very religious.

And we're standing in a gas station filling up, and she starts hitting me with her dichotomous beliefs. It's binary. We're not talking about the facts of history or science. It's all about God versus no God. And to me, there's plenty of Christians who believe in God. There's plenty of Christians who understand evolution. Most of the pioneers of evolution were Christians. Some of the best heroes of evolutionary

theory are Christians still today. Understanding evolution has nothing to do with whether there's a God or not. There's plenty of Christians who are not biblical literalists. So I don't see it the way she does. She sees it completely binary. But for me, whether God exists or not doesn't matter.

And so when she started this argument, I said, but she argued something about whether God exists. And I said, well, whether God exists or not is irrelevant. and she staggered backward at that concept. And I don't know where she went from that, but clearly the idea that there is a whole other aspect that you haven't even looked at seemed to hit her.

Speaker 10: One time I convinced a guy to grab Jacob's dick in the desert. Speaker 2: One last short break, our final segment with more Q & A and prizes next. Continuing with the Q & A portion of the Unholy Trinity reunion event in Fort Worth, August 29th.

Speaker 8: So I have an interesting question for you guys. When I was deconstructing, people that were really important in my deconstruction were the New Atheists, the Richard.

Speaker 2: Dawkins, Sam Harris. Speaker 3: Oh, the transphobes. Speaker 7: See, that's what I'm getting at. Speaker 8: They were very influential in just getting me to just think about things, just ask those hard questions and I also, as a scientist myself, because I'm a behaviorist, I looked into a lot.

Speaker 14: Of papers written by Richard Dawkins, and they were very. Speaker 2: Influential, especially in the scientific community. Speaker 8: Sam Harris did wonders for just understanding psychology as a neuroscientist, and so it's just like. Speaker 3: How do. Speaker 8: You guys reconcile, or, like, how do you navigate, because a lot of you have talked to some of these people, and you've, like, you know, you've been around them, and you've probably learned, studied them yourselves for many years. Like, how do you reconcile, like, understanding that they're still very influential, especially in their fields? Like, as an evolutionary biologist, Richard

Dawkins is... and very influential, very amazing, and still does great work. How do you reconcile that with now them not being very scientific in terms. Speaker 2: Of being transphobic and also just a lot of other cuckoo stuff they're doing? Speaker 8: How do you guys navigate that as people.

Speaker 2: Who know them? Speaker 6: I liked Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I was very happy to meet her in Australia. Her room was actually right next to mine, strangely. Speaker 7: I was very pleased to meet Ayaan Hirsi Ali. heaped praise and all of that.

Speaker 6: But then to hear that she is the Christian she declares to be, that was disappointing. But worse than that was the reason. Speaker 2: That's not reason. Speaker 6: I'm praising this person as a celebrated thinker and then hearing the stupidest explanation for why she chose a person when she goes, I choose to believe.

Speaker 2: Ah, so you're pretending. Speaker 6: Thank you for that admission. Speaker 2: Well, and she, I think, felt embraced by Christianity as shades of Christianity. Speaker 7: In regard to some of her political beliefs. Speaker 2: But in her entire article explaining why she was now identifying as a Christian, there was no defense of the Christian faith at all. Richard Dawkins made me crazy. It's not just the trans stuff. He came forward and he said, Trump's a piece of shit, but Elon is a great American.

Speaker 7: I wrote a 17-point rebuttal. Speaker 2: I said, Richard Dawkins, you're fucking killing me. And I went through example after example of how Elon has said and done absolutely horrific and unconscionable things. Speaker 7: And then he came recently, was it last year? Speaker 2: And he decided he's calling himself a cultural Christian because he likes some of the aesthetics of the religion. And I'm like, Jesus, pardon the expression. But I immediately had

believers in my own circle ping me and say, aha, even Richard Dawkins says that Christianity is good. Speaker 7: For the world. And I'm like, you're killing me. Speaker 2: Just say you like the paintings. Speaker 7: Just say you like the music. Just say you like the aesthetic. Speaker 2: But don't call yourself a Christian if you don't believe in the Christian God.

Speaker 7: And it was monumentally frustrating. Speaker 3: So I jumped in too quick. I probably shouldn't have, but I toured with both of them. And I liked both of them. Sam was actually, I wish people knew Sam in a way like, I was fortunate enough where we'd sit at the bar or something after the event and talk. And he's genuinely a good guy on a couple of things.

Speaker 2: Lots of things. Speaker 3: I have massive, and I don't require that the people I interact with, that we agree on it. There are, though, some hard lines. And the transphobia is a hard line, not just because my wife's trans. It was a hard line before that. Also, the de facto Zionist support and supporting of a genocide, in some sense, that's an issue

for me. But they're both amazing on a number of different things. And everybody's got to decide where they draw their lines. I'm just really good at figuring after 20 some odd years of being under constant attack and watching my friends and the people I love being under attack, I've gotten really good at taking no shit, as Seth would say, and calling them out.

Speaker 2: Part of the hope is. Speaker 3: is that I know there's enough wonderful knowledge and passion in both of them that I hope for some change.

I'm not incredibly optimistic. But it's not just those two. I mean, I could rattle off 50 people that I won't work with anymore. And it's really hard. I was thinking about this just the other day. You couldn't pay me to work with JK Rowling right now. But I actually extend that to people who are willing to work with JK Rowling. And so Rupert has gone back to

working with JK Rowling. And so not that none of them want to work with me. That's not what I mean. But what do you do with the albums of the rock stars that you find out were banging 12-year-olds? I mean, the music's still good. They've already made their money. There's no reason for me to burn my Harry Potter book.

She already made the money off of it. It's really hard. And what you'll hear, and I hear it all the time, apart from you're gay, you're gay, you're gay, is that I'm putting myself in an echo chamber and I will tolerate nobody who disagrees with me and I will create this barrier where I don't.

Speaker 9: No, no, no. Speaker 3: If Dawkins or Sam Harris want to do a debate, I'm there tomorrow. I will fuck them up on trans issues. Speaker 2: Just absolutely. Speaker 3: But it's not going to happen. There are ways. It's like I was telling Laurie, you have to draw boundaries.

And for me, I have 23 buckets of privilege. I didn't grow up rich or anything, but I'm a cis possibly straight. White dude with, you know, I make a decent living thanks mostly to you guys. And if I don't use every point of privilege that I can spend to try to help the people who don't have that advantage,

what kind of dick am I? I mean, people can think what they want about the attitude or Matt gets hot or he calls names or whatever else. And I ain't dolly. But I'm a different type of somebody who's at least recognized that I have tools that I have to use. And one of my favorite things I've ever heard anybody say was from Penn Jillette. Because Penn pointed out, if your house was on fire and nobody came and

told you, that'd be awful. And if you think I'm actually going to hell, what kind of dick would you have to be to not express that concern? And similarly, I got tired of watching the sexist Me Too dudes, I was in the Navy for eight and a half years, the de facto gay jokes, all of this with nobody saying a word because, as Trump would point out, it's just an old boys club. When you're rich, they let

you do it and everything. Speaker 2: Nobody calls it out. Speaker 3: And I got tired of people who I loved saying, why don't you call it out? So now I fucking do. What are they going to do, fire me? That ain't happening. Speaker 2: I'm good.

Speaker 7: We are on the clock. Speaker 2: Let's do two more, and then I want to finish with a couple of fun little prizes and, of course, our big gratitude. Speaker 7: To you for. Speaker 2: But we've got to be out of the building by 10 o'clock. I'll also say this on your way out, and I know you would anyway. look at your feet, make sure there are no programs or trash on the ground.

I want to make sure we leave this place as good stewards of this place. Speaker 7: But let's do two more quick ones. Hi, guys. I have two questions, super quick. Speaker 18: One, when will the video of tonight be available for viewing? And I know that's a Seth answer. And then for all three of you, if you want to, what do you think of recent Bill Maher rhetoric on his show?

Speaker 2: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Speaker 3: I have a quick answer, yeah. Fuck Bill Maher.

Speaker 6: And you say recent Bill Maher issues. It doesn't seem recent to me. He's been kind of an embarrassment for decades. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: Well, I remember enjoying much of the documentary Religious, which he produced. And then at the end, he was like, and he was doing the Horus and the other comparisons.

And I'm like, what the hell? Speaker 7: That's so easily fact-checked. Speaker 2: Anytime you pull something like that, it tells you that they're not doing serious research, right? And we. Speaker 7: get all over the religious when they do that. Speaker 2: An unsourced claim or a bad claim or this is factually wrong or this is demonstrably untrue, blah, blah, blah.

And then we turn around and we do the same freaking thing. Bill Maher is guilty of that. He's on that anti-woke wagon. He leaves a horrible taste in my mouth. The answer to the question about the video is I am shooting video in the hopes that it's all going to come out and look good and sound good in post.

If it does, my hope is that it will eventually go online maybe early fall, but it's all contingent on just how it all looks and sounds when I get it back into the studio. Hey, guys.

Speaker 6: My question is specifically for Matt, but I'd like to hear from all of you. Speaker 3: I don't answer questions from people in Forrest Gump shirts. Speaker 2: I've been listening to you about five, six years. Speaker 3: Enjoy it. Speaker 14: For about the last year, I've been listening to Bart Ehrman.

I've heard you explain the good and bad about Dawkins and Sam Harris and what not. But I don't believe I've heard you speak too much on any flaws. I guess I'd like your opinion on virtues and flaws of Bart Ehrman and just overall what.

Speaker 2: You think about it. Speaker 3: Okay. So you haven't heard it for the same reason you haven't heard a lot of other things because I'll call out people when I got an issue but I'm so exhausted from the various infighting and drama and bickering.

I know shit that... It's like the talk I said I was going to give. I tried to dance around it and say stuff that I've been wanting to say for ages because I'm fed up with this, and I don't want to do that. So I will say this about Bart. I moderated a debate between Bart Ehrman and Robert Price. Bart is great. I've had Bart on the show He's one of the go-to scholars that I like to reference. We don't know each other personally. I think if you asked him who I was, he would know.

But we're not close. His book, Lost Christianities, was bigger for me than misquoting Jesus. And it's one of the few books that I immediately recommend. Enumeracy by John Allen Paulus and Lost Christianities by Bart Ehrman. I've been listening to more of Bart's stuff lately, including things... from people on Bart's network, like CJ Cornthwaite, who, I don't know

how he's still a believer, but it's fine. I don't know how another guy is still a Mormon. I'm genuinely, I don't wanna start up shit, I really like Bart. I don't know enough about what Bart has said where there might be an issue somewhere, but what I tell you is, Bart, to my view, has always been incredibly

smart from a marketing standpoint to not piss off too many people. He's a proper scholar who works with scholars who disagree with him on the conclusion, and they. Speaker 7: Are all friendly. Speaker 3: I like that. I wish there was more of that.

The problem is I can't do that, and not because I'm incapable of doing it, but because the people that I find myself up against are advocating for the most hateful things, not some nuanced view of, you know, ooh, what's your view on soteriology, or, you know, was this, is the author of Luke Acts really just a con artist, like I said the other day? Is the fact that both Luke and Acts begin with a trust me bro thing?

Speaker 2: You know, how is that? Speaker 3: I love that kind of stuff. Paula Gia and I are going to do a video about why Paul focuses more, Paula Gia, not Paul from the Bible, on why he focuses more on academia, and I don't. And I think you might get some answers there. I have no issue with Bart that I can think of. but it could be a piece of shit and I just don't know.

I doubt it. Speaker 2: I interviewed Bart just a while back and I recommend the Ehrman blogs, Misquoting Jesus Killer, an amazing, amazing book. I like the fact that he went to seminary and the dominoes felt like a lot of times when you go to seminary, essentially they treat you to make the, it's a love letter to the Bible, right? They teach you apologetics, which translates speaking in defense. But where he was going, they actually were able to dissect it, and

he found himself. So I don't know how he identifies, atheist, agnostic, whatever. Speaker 7: I do know when I. Speaker 2: Ask him about how do we know was there a real man named Jesus, he cracked up and kind of laughed at me. And I remember that stung a little bit. And I'm like, don't laugh at me, Bart. I'm just asking a question. I just want to know because there's this big blow up between the mythicist and the historicist.

I like Bart. I think he's done a tremendous amount of good, and I recommend his work all the time. Speaker 6: On a different topic. I got a question for the audience. Matt made a comment about how he's doing so well because of y'all. And so I just noticed that when I check, both of these men have more patrons than me.

Speaker 2: Can we fix that?

Speaker 3: I release you to support Arnold. Speaker 2: I'm going to move you guys over here to the prize table. John, do you want to give us a hand? Everybody pull out your raffle tickets. All right, give me a number, John.

Speaker 9: 019. Speaker 12: 019. Speaker 8: What's your name? Speaker 2: Ben. Ben. Ben? Ben, you have won, for what it's worth, autographed copies of a couple of books written by a couple of heathens who happen to be on stage.

Speaker 7: Matt hasn't written a book. Speaker 2: Anyway, we'll get those to you in the lobby and we'll sign them for you, okay, brother? Speaker 6: That's fair. Speaker 15: Next number is 119.

Speaker 2: What do we name you?

Speaker 7: All right, who's coming? All right, well, you can stay there. We'll bring it to you. What's your first name? Speaker 2: Felicia. Felicia. Well, I love religious gifts. And a little token, something that's constantly moving, moving as if moving with the Spirit, reminding you of the goodness of God. You have now

your own show your faith Jesus Christ bobblehead. And may the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. We'll be happy to sign the box. Before we leave, just grab us as soon as we dismiss, if you would like. Thank you. All right, next.

Speaker 8: Number is 169. Speaker 2: Nice, nice, nice. As we.

Speaker 7: Could have taken a few extra minutes. Speaker 2: I actually thought about having the ceremony just for kicks. You've heard of the miracle of transubstantiation. As we take in the body and flesh of Jesus Christ, for you, my friend, we have a hundred travel communion cups.

Speaker 3: Also, In the Trump administration, you're no longer allowed to call it transubstantiation. It's just. Speaker 2: This is his body broken for you. Blah, blah, blah. Speaker 7: Enjoy some grape juice and crackers, my friend.

Speaker 10: This would have been the most apophilic cereal you could possibly get. Speaker 8: All right, next number is. Speaker 3: 087... In the back. Speaker 2: Sainthood is not exclusive to religion, my friend. And I would like to send home with our winner tonight a candle of a saint, someone who inspires and in fact

is with us all, always, ladies and gentlemen, Saint Rob. Speaker 3: Thank you.

Speaker 2: Light it with hope and courage. Speaker 13: I promise I'll burn. Speaker 10: The candle out and fill it. Speaker 2: Up with whiskey. Speaker 3: This lady wants to know if. Speaker 6: Those are for sale. Speaker 4: No. Speaker 15: Next number is 160.

Speaker 2: What's your name? Kenny. You a coffee drinker? Well, now you can have the chemistry of coffee in the palm of your hand when you start your day.

Speaker 7: We have a little science gift just for you. It's not the only mug I've got coming, too. Speaker 2: We brought another one that's rather biblical that I think you're going to enjoy. Next number is 125. One, two, three, right there. All right. What's your name?

Speaker 7: Lucky you. Speaker 2: Next time you have a party with family and friends, you can prove the statistic that the two demographics that know the Bible better than Christians are Jewish people and... Ladies and gentlemen, how about some Bible trivia?

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: My money's on you on game night, I'm just saying. Speaker 15: Next number is 046. Speaker 2: Shout your name out. All right, well, we're doing a lot of Jesus tonight, as promised. Have you guys seen those little figurines that have been going all over the place? Yeah!

Speaker 11: You have one 110-piece Jesus decorative figurine set. Speaker 2: People, these are about an inch and a half tall. And a thing in Christianity now is to leave them wherever people go. You leave them in waiting rooms, in grocery stores, in law offices.

Speaker 7: People just leave them. And I guess this is a form of witness. Speaker 2: So now you two can spread a little Jesus Christ wherever you go. Speaker 15: Draw me two numbers for. Speaker 2: This one, since I have two months. All right, so we have two. I'm going to double. One, two, three, and one, four, eight. One, two, three, one, four, eight.

Speaker 3: Cool. Speaker 2: I know one of them. So because there are many beverage drinkers here in the room... But not everybody has the right, has the most panache in their Bible stories and scriptures, the references that bring us back to the Christian scriptures. Here are, for both of you, I have two of these mugs. For the person you love, you are worth more than 100 Philistine foreskins.

Speaker 3: Thank you.

Speaker 2: This next one I just thought was funny. Speaker 18: Next number is 131. Speaker 2: All right. Shout out your name. Speaker 3: Shelly. Shelly. Speaker 8: Shelly.

Speaker 2: Well, this isn't a biblical gift, but you know we're going to be heading into the fall and winter, and if we can't be wrapped up in the love of God, maybe we could wrap ourselves in a blanket that looks just like a tortilla. Last one, real fast. 041.

Speaker 13: 041. Speaker 3: 041.

Speaker 2: What's your name? Speaker 3: Carla. Speaker 2: In these trying times, sometimes good therapy means we act out what we would like the future to hold. We imagine, we create a fantasy in the hopes that one day it will become a reality. And action figures are often a way for us to be able to do that tangibly, to bring hope, to bring laughter. to bring us forward

into the future. You are taking home with you tonight a dream that we all, I think, share. It is the Donald Trump in prison action figure. Did you guys

have an okay time tonight? Thank you guys so much for coming. Thanks for supporting us. Thanks for all the encouragement. We're going to be in the lobby for as long as we can. We must be clear at 10 o'clock.

But it means the world that you were a part of this evening. Speaker 7: You made it happen. Speaker 2: We bow to you and say thank you all very, very, very much. Thank you.

Speaker 1: TheThinkingAtheist.com