The Elevator Metaphor: Portrait of American Idiots

Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. Speaker 2: Stand by. Three, two, one. Speaker 3: The thinking atheist. It's not a person. It's a symbol. An idea. Speaker 1: The population of atheists in this country is. Speaker 3: Going through the roof. Rejecting faith. Pursuing knowledge. challenging the sacred.

Speaker 4: If i tell the truth it's because i tell the truth not because i put my hand on a book and made a wish. Speaker 3: And working together for a more rational world. Speaker 5: Take the risk of thinking for yourself much more happiness truth beauty and wisdom will come to you.

Speaker 4: That way assume nothing question everything and start thinking this is the thinking atheist podcast Hosted by Seth Andrews.

Speaker 1: So we were traveling to Wichita this last weekend. Big family reunion, Natalie's family, they all traveled in from all around the country to get together. It was a pleasant, pleasant Saturday and Sunday despite the heat. And I had a couple of things pop into my mind as we were at the hotel and on the highway. And I thought, you know, this helps to provide commentary on the frustrations that we have living in the physical world. The frustrations

we feel with tens of millions of our fellow Americans or probably just humans in general. Planet-wide, this may be epidemic. Just a couple of scenarios. Now, you tell me if I'm crazy. The first one is we are staying at the Ambassador Hotel, Wichita, Kansas. And it's a lovely hotel.

My only complaint is apparently everybody in downtown Wichita on a Friday night revs their engines like it is the Wichita Motor Speedway. All night. Speaker 6: Vroom! Speaker 2: Vroom! Vroom! Vroom! Speaker 1: And then somebody else decides, oh yeah? Well, I need to show you that my penis is larger than your penis.

And then they cruise down the street. They floor the accelerator. It's stupid. I am this close from cutting through the glass of a window that does not open and shouting down to the street, Viagra is cheaper. That went on until 3.30 in the morning. We actually ended up checking out, which is a crime because the hotel itself is absolutely gorgeous.

Amazing restaurant and all those things. We just couldn't sleep because of all the traffic. So I was probably cranky anyway, but I'm in the elevator. We're going down to the lobby. So the sixth floor, five, four, three, two, one, ding, and the doors open. And there are people suffocating the entrance to the elevator, attempting to get on. And I think, what part of elevators do you not understand? An elevator

must empty of people so that there will be space for you, right? The process is people exit the elevator, other people then get on the elevator. But for some reason, and this is epidemic, people just, they stand there as close to the doors, the doors open, and then they act surprised. when six, seven, eight people, many of them carrying baggage carts, or, you know, people who have been cleaning the rooms, they've got their cleaning carts, someone's got

pets on a leash, they're trying to get out into the lobby or onto their floor, and they have to then wait for the seas to part because people did not take the class Elevators 101. And I think, are they just that clueless about other people that they have to share the planet? Is their mind elsewhere? Maybe they're going through something, so they're not really checked into the moment.

I'm a little more patient with that. But come on. Look, I must get out of the elevator so that you may get on. And I thought, hmm. This may be a reflection of how people act and react in the rest of their lives. With the rest of the world, they're kind of clueless that other people exist, or that there are systems that society must have in place for us to be civilized. I gotta get off the elevator

before you get on. Speaker 6: Basic. Speaker 1: The second thing is, and I know you've been through this, and by the way, if you are guilty of doing this to other people, I now hold you in contempt. I think your car should be impounded and you should be fined in at least the four digits. And I'll die on this hill. You're cruising along. The highway is wide open, four lanes, two going each direction. The big orange sign pops up. Road construction. Left lane ends in

two miles. Now, what do self-aware higher primates do whenever they see a sign? They realize you have, what is it, 10,000 feet? Something like that. What's a mile? It's over 5,000 feet. So you have over 10,000 feet to click that little blinker and slide into the right place.

Speaker 6: Lane. Speaker 1: If everybody cooperates, we all line up. Nobody has to really slow down all that much. When you lose the left lane, you can keep cruising toward your destination. We all have places to be, but no. There's always one or two that screw it up for the rest of us.

They stay, they stay, they stay, and you and I are watching them going, you got to be shitting me. At the last second, they're going to wake up and they're going to get off their phone or whatever and realize, uh-oh, merge. And then the rest of us are going to have to hit our brakes while they jack their vehicle and slow us all down to 15 miles an hour unnecessarily. Or, and Natalie and I have a name for these people,

we call them jackwads because they're jacking their car into traffic and they're dickwads. I don't even know why we came up with that. We call them jackwads. They think, well, okay, I guess if we're going to lose a lane... I need to accelerate to 90, get in front of as many cars as I can, and purposefully jack my vehicle in front of some cars at the last possible moment, this close to hitting the orange cones or barrels, and

then I will get to my destination 11 seconds faster. And they slow the entire train down to 15 miles an hour. And I just think this may be a commentary on how people live their lives. There are those of us who merge. We see instructions giving us an awareness about the environment in which we live, and we responsibly and with planning execute those instructions for the good

of ourselves and our fellow drivers. And then there are, and it only takes some, Not even the majority. It just takes some people to jack up the system and slow the rotation of the earth and make all of us just a little later and more frustrated, right? And it doesn't matter because if it benefits them, hey, that's all that matters. That's maybe a commentary on the human condition.

Those of us who are trying to get along and function are being dragged down by the rest of us. Does that not sound like the United States of America right now? Newsweek just published statistics, recent polling, Labor Day polling on Donald Trump's support and popularity, which stands, right now, still, 34% approval. Are you kidding me? 34% of Americans? After

all that's been said and done, 34%, these are the people who are clogging our elevator doors. These are the people who are jamming their cars into our lanes and slowing societal traffic, slowing civilization down, perhaps even regressing us.

These are the people. other people. Labor Day, loaded with these wacky, unhinged, AI-generated images that Trump posted across Truth Social. First of all, he comes forward and he says, America and the world need to thank me because my investments in various stock market options have made us all billions and billions of dollars. He said, quote, I do this

for our country, not myself. I've made hundreds of billions of dollars on stocks and many other type holdings for the USA, not myself, and all I do is get criticized by the radical left dumocrats. Oh, he was nasty.

Up in Canada, Mark Carney says, On Labor Day, we honor the workers who have built our country and celebrate the proud history of organized labor in Canada. For generations, unions have made our economy stronger and our country fairer.

They have fought for better pay, safer workplaces, pensions, benefits, and paid leave, ensuring that prosperity and opportunity are shared among the many. Because unions have always understood something fundamental. It is not just what we build, but how we build.

And he went on. But Donald Trump? His message on Labor Day had a decidedly Trumpian tone. Quote, Happy Labor Day to all, including the radical left lunatics, communists, and Democrats who will do anything possible to destroy our country.

These deranged people, after fighting for 10 years, should finally acknowledge that your favorite president, me, all caps, me, knows how to win, all caps. They should be exhausted by now, but sadly they're not. They're going to give it one last shot at ruining America. But we're not going to let that happen. We're going to win the midterms big and save America President Donald J.

Speaker 7: Trump. Speaker 1: The guy can't even say happy Labor Day without turning into a raving, crazy six-year-old. The guy is definitely off his dementia pills. He also posts a series of AI images, and they are bizarre. I mean, you may have seen them floating around online. There's one where he looks like a wrestler draped in the American flag. There's a Space Force commander. Have you seen the new Space Force uniforms

that were supposedly inspired by the Paul Verhoeven film Starship Troopers? Now, anybody who is remotely self-aware understands that Starship Troopers was actually Kind of a satire. It was a commentary on a fascist state. A right-wing, I'm-doing-my-part, warlike country that is doing battle against the evil other. And I really do think that the creatures in Starship Troopers represented foreigners and

anybody who was not white right. I really think that Starship Troopers was a commentary on that. But, you know, they're not self-aware to understand that emulating the Starship Troopers uniform... ain't really a good thing. Trump posted an image that designated the Strait of Hormuz as a new U.S. territory.

He was still pounding the drum about Lake Ontario becoming Lake America. He then says he wants to turn New Mexico into New America. He posts an image of the moon with the caption, The moon is ours. Yes, Trump has declared that the United States owns the moon. Is he going to build an estate there? Is he going to put it Mar-a-Lago, Moon-a-Lago? Is that what it's going

to be on the moon? He had images of himself with like these big robot armies with very ominous threats to anybody who got in his path. And of course, we're talking about the same Trump media service that is now charging up to $ 100, 000 a month to people who want early access to the stuff that he posted. He's manipulating markets. So we're talking about insider trading online. I think there may already be lawsuits in place about that.

Our soldiers are dying in Iran in a war that was never supposed to happen. We don't even know how many of our soldiers have died. I don't think. I think some of the numbers, the statistics about the dead and wounded are being covered up. Pete Hegseth is obviously incompetent.

There is no plan. We were promised no new wars in the first place. We were promised that Russia-Ukraine would be solved on day one. We were promised the economy would be fixed on day one. We were promised the moon, if you'll pardon the expression. Nothing has happened except calamity and chaos and everybody hates us and 34% approval. These are the people stacking our cultural elevator. and they won't

allow us to get through, get by, get on with the rest of our lives. Is that a bad metaphor? Is it flawed in some way? I lean on you. I'm going to need you to tell me where the holes are, or perhaps there's a better scenario to sort of comment on all the stuff that's going around us.

I took some calls on a recent live stream, great conversations from members of this community, and we will get to those in just a second. My patrons get the broadcast early and commercial free. Thank you so much for considering becoming a patron at patreon.com slash Seth Andrews. Jack,

who is dialing in from 850. Jack, welcome. Are you there? Speaker 2: Hey, Seth. Yes, I'm here. Speaker 1: What's on your mind? Speaker 2: Well, I posted on Facebook the other day, I try not to post anything, but I put out a request for my friends to call their congressman about House Resolution 1486, I believe it was, the Al Green resolution to impeach Donald Trump. And I put out what it was about,

and I got three replies. One of them was, I disagree. One of them was, Al Green's a joke. And the third one was, I agree with you. So I had to think about it for a while before I replied.

And so I went and I looked at your episode entitled, Unskeptical. And I watched that for a while before I could come up with an answer. So I went back to the one that said, I disagree. And I said, thank you. I appreciate your opinion. And here's a video for you to watch, and hopefully this will help you.

Speaker 1: Oh, you posted my video? Speaker 2: Yes. I'd link to it. Speaker 7: Yes. Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember. Was that a speech that I gave like three or four years ago, I think? Speaker 3: Yes, it was. Speaker 2: You spoke about the lady who burned at McDonald's. Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. I was drawn and blind. I've done so many recent events. Yeah, we did a story about the McDonald's coffee lawsuit and how people used to say it was all a scam and it's proof that we need litigation and tort reform, blah, blah, blah. But they

didn't understand the true story of Stella Liebeck and the terrible burns that she received and the long track record that McDonald's had had at selling essentially boiling temperature coffee. And so... The settlement or the judgment in the case was actually a way to get McDonald's, a multi-billion dollar company, to change its behavior and make things right. And Stella Liebeck actually didn't end up with all the money that

she was originally granted. It was appealed down, blah, blah, blah. But it's an interesting look at how we in our knee-jerky culture will often get things wrong. This relates to the new speech I'm going to release in a couple of weeks on the same line. So, I don't have a lot of optimism that your friend or the commenter will have actually watched it, but I appreciate you sharing it and let me know if it bears any fruit, okay?

Speaker 2: Well, Seth, there were several items that you did in that video, not just the lady in McDonald's. And so it made me think, okay, maybe I need to go back and rethink my thoughts on this, posting on what I thought about impeaching Donald Trump and And that's why I said, I think the hole is in his end of the boat. So that's why I posted your video.

And I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. Speaker 1: Appreciate you, Jack. Thanks for calling. We'll see you later. Speaker 2: Bye. Speaker 1: I don't think impeachment is going to do a damn thing. He's impeached. So what? Now, what else is going to happen?

No one's going to put restraints on him. There's no real penalty attached to it. I mean, this is 25th Amendment time. And if the 25th Amendment hasn't kicked in by now, it will never kick in and it might as well not exist. Parody is impossible. Did you see that AI video? He's obsessed with posting these AI videos with violence imbued in them. Fantasy strikes throughout Iran. Once

he's taught, he's threatening to decimate the whole country, including civilians, the innocent, the victims. Then he posts this wacky video, AI video of Canadian geese shooting machine guns in the air and then kicking over the sign to Lake Ontario and it becomes Lake America. The 25th Amendment might as well not even exist. So you can impeach him all day.

It's not going to make any difference. Removal is the only, and the Republican Party is not going to stop him. Hell, it looks like the Democrats are pretty much toothless. The Supreme Court, are you shitting me? They have just ruled to allow him to continue building the ballroom. Even John Roberts, the Chief Justice, joined the minority opinion and said, wait a minute, this is the people's house. It's a historical structure.

He doesn't have the authority to do that. When you lose John Roberts, but you still win the Supreme Court judgment. I have no... If the midterms... I need the midterms to. I need the midterms. I don't know how else to say it. And then we get a whistleblower out of the post office who says that they're already sort of rigging things so that mail-in ballots are filtered or throttled

and not properly distributed and or counted. Secretly, a scheme going on behind the walls of the U.S. Postal Service. What else don't we know about? The military generals, they should be in open rebellion against our commander-in-chief and his illegal orders. Deafening silence. It's just the retired ones who are speaking out, but the people still in their positions. Fine,

it costs you your career. History is watching. On this very subject, The Conversation had published an article which was co-written by several instructors at West Point, the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York, perhaps the most famous military academy in this country. And it was titled this.

Military personnel swear allegiance to the Constitution and serve the American people, not one leader or party. I'll just read from it. It says... The foundation of what we teach at West Point is that the military's allegiance is to a system of government codified in the Constitution. Article 1 of the Constitution says that Congress declares war and funds the military. Article 2 of the Constitution makes clear that

the military must follow the orders of the democratically elected civilian president The framers of the Constitution shared authority over the military among elected officials to ensure no one person has unchecked power to direct the military and that the actions of the military are beholden to the public it serves.

The course we teach provides context and depth for cadets to understand their oath. On their first day at West Point, cadets take an oath to the Constitution. When they graduate, they take a similar oath also to the Constitution as they transition from cadet to military officer. Graduations, promotions, re-enlistments, and other major milestones are commemorated by service members reaffirming

their commitment to the Constitution. The article goes even deeper into the constitutional oath and the responsibilities of our military to serve all of us. I will link it in the description box. John, dialing in from 971.

Speaker 6: Welcome. Speaker 1: Are you there? Speaker 6: I am here. Speaker 8: You know, I'm really fired up watching the news every day and experiencing it. So, you know, my day-to-day is... I'm sure you've gotten this a hundred million times, but... I mean, should we be nice to Trump supporters? And, you know, I asked this in the comments, I said, no, no, no.

And I'm talking about like my mega light, apolitical neighbors who are like, you know, I don't want to talk politics or like my mom was just like, I don't want to talk politics. It's like, well, will you vote? You know, she, especially recently, she, you know, recently out of a job and she financially helped me. So it's like, it's not really safe to be a little bit, you know, too radical. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1: I don't have a perfect solution. The hardcore mag is I have nothing to do with. You've had three elections to figure it out. If you're still part of the cult, if you're reachable, it's going to take somebody better than me. The quiet quitters, the people who are like, oh, well, you know, I didn't really realize it was going to be this bad. And they're kind of drifting. I'm a little nicer is not the word, but I am more

adjacent to them. And my hope is and my goal is, is to try to motivate them to step over to this side. The water is warm. We are on the right side of history. Don't just sit there on your hands and say, saw we, but let's try to help undo some of the damage that's been done. The people who feel like they might be starting to wake up, I am more adjacent to, but they are not my circle.

I don't hang out with them. I don't want to be around them. They leave a bad taste in my mouth. They are responsible for untold harm. And that's just me. But I can't tell you who your circle ought to be or what your tolerance level ought to be. But I'm like, you know, 2016, all right, fine, you bought into the outsider, rich guy, genius myth. 2020, I'm not quite so charitable. 2024, you're going to be shitting me.

Are you blind? Are you that stupid? Or are you just that bigoted and cruel? And I know I'm supposed to understand the power of cults and indoctrination, and many of these people have been Fox Newsed, etc., etc. But that only goes so far until it goes no further. There is no excuse for someone continuing to support what we are seeing all around. And for that reason, I've just, I've cut them off. I don't hang with them. I don't want to hang with them. They are not my circle.

They're not my people. They don't share my values. The people who are starting to finally drift out and might be redeemable are not pals, but I haven't totally cut that cord. Speaker 6: Okay? Speaker 8: Yeah, you wrote the speech I've been trying to write.

Speaker 2: Oh, man. Speaker 1: Well, you know, I can't do much in this world, but I can flap my gums. I've got 900 shows to practice. So all I know is let's vote and let's continue to speak out and play, you know, some chess with your mom if she's helping you financially and you're worried. I feel bad that you having a dissenting opinion might cause her to pull the financial plug. That's a big red flag. But, you know, I think long game it with mom. But everywhere else, be your authentic

self and don't abide fools. That would be my advice. Speaker 8: OK, I appreciate it very much. Speaker 1: Thank you, John. We'll see you later. Don't abide fools. fools. Leticia dialing in on a web call from Los Angeles. Welcome to show number 900. Are you there?

Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 9: Hi Seth. Speaker 1: Welcome. What's on your mind? Speaker 9: I just wanted to mention something light, I guess. Something that's been keeping me sane. Just going to the movies. I recently saw Obsession, Odyssey, The End of Oak Street, and Spa Weekend. The next movie I'm looking forward to watching is Mutiny. And The other thing keeping me sane is also podcasts, of course, yours and this other person

by the name of Danny Cook. Some of the topics, for example, that you two talk about is regarding politics. And I feel that she also provides a lot of useful information that keeps you informed, but also doesn't make you feel like you're losing your shit with everything that's going on. So I thought maybe mentioning some of these things that are helping you Me, I guess, could possibly....

Speaker 1: Whoop, did I lose you? And she's gone. Leticia, our connection has been severed. The universe is against us. But I did hear what you said and heard those recommendations. I see a progress bar. Is she coming back? Will the cosmos realign? Will the chakras allow us to continue?

It looks like she's out. Okay. So I saw the movie Obsession. It's a little indie horror flick. And it is so good, but it's so uncomfortably good. Couldn't take my eyes off the screen. And I love these little success stories. It's like back rooms and whatnot. So you've got the Hollywood system and they're pouring squealions of dollars and corporatizing all of this stuff, formula films. But you've also got some great indie developers, producers, directors, storytellers. They're

just going and doing their own thing on a shoestring and producing amazing, amazing stuff. And Back Rooms was a great example, but Obsession was so freaking good. I loved The Odyssey, which is a big-budget Hollywood film. I don't understand why Chris Nolan wants to drag that damn 300-pound IMAX camera everywhere. I don't care what everybody says. How many IMAX screens are there in the United States? Like

a few dozen? And you don't need to see it on IMAX for it to be amazing, because there are so many actual giant screens that aren't IMAX. I just think that's bullshit. I think he's delusional. But if you're Christopher Nolan, you've earned the right to be that. So knock yourself out if you want to drag that thing all over creation. Pardon the expression. But the Odyssey was amazing.

We just had an absolute ball. I'm trying to think if there are any other good films. It is important for us to unplug. Find something. And don't make fun of other people's something because it ain't your thing. But we've got to unplug. You know what I found myself doing?

I knew I had a problem when I was checking my phone. And I have so many different apps going on that there's always something to check. So I would be sitting on the couch or I'd be at the dinner table or I'd be wherever. Okay, you're going to check this. Social media, did this go out? What's the comment here? Dude, I need to post something else. It's been three hours. Wait a minute. What's the weather? It's 105 degrees. How much is that going to continue? So I pull up the weather app and I look at the seven-day. YouTube. Oh, the YouTube video went out and

I got to double check and make sure that it released on time. Are the comments good? Because did I miss anything? If so, I've got to go correct that. The Spreaker thing with the blah, blah, blah and the podcast and other stuff. Even little apps and games. I always found myself looking at a screen, a tiny screen, and I had it with me all the time. I'm standing at the urinal, scrolling with the other hand. Scrolling social media. Or typing a text or checking email. And I thought, no, no, this is a problem, Seth. This

is a problem. You've got to unplug. This is affecting... I think this can literally turn your brain into muck. Speaker 2: And. Speaker 1: So I have made a concentrated effort to put my phone down and to, like, when I go on the morning walk before the sun heats up the sidewalks, Linus and I go out and we do our morning walk around the neighborhood. Used to be I had earbuds in and I had content rolling all the time, audio books usually.

And I just started leaving the earbuds at home. Phone and earbuds on the counter. Driving in the car instead of listening to the news or some other feed. I just listen to nothing. Just collect my thoughts, you know. Enjoy the drive. itself. Or play music. What a novel idea.

That's normally not my thing. More and more, I've realized that it's unhealthy the amount of stuff that's being fire-hosed into me. It began to affect me. It affected me in my mind and my heart. I think it affected me physically. And it depressed me and oppressed me. And while I still, by the nature of the beast, have to remain plugged in a lot to be able to do what I do, I have also decided as a

force of will, I got to not. Put the freaking phone down, Seth. Put it down. It can wait. It will wait. Do something else. Get outside. Spend time with your love. Pet the dog. Go for a drive. Hang out.

Have dinner with somebody. Just stop. That's helped, but it ain't easy. I'm going to take a break right here. I'll be right back with more of your calls. Thank you so much for listening on this 901st broadcast. You know, we just celebrated the big milestone, and thanks to everybody

for sharing all their goodwill and for sticking with me over 17 years. Let's talk to Drew, dialing in at 337. Thanks for waiting. Speaker 6: Are you there? Hey, yes. I'm sorry, I just heard my name. How's it going, Jeff? Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Drew. Let's talk. What's on your mind?

Speaker 6: I just want to say briefly, I'm really glad that kind of the pushback against the Democrats over the last few years has become a lot more mainstream. It's been the truth for quite a while that the Democrats at best were probably closer to controlled opposition than real opposition to the Republicans. And, you know, they've been able to hide behind the veneer of we really want to, but we just can't. But, you know, when Obama gets elected and we have a super majority and not much is done and, you know, when Trump is appointing these judges

or even when Trump is being elected, there's not a lot of pushback to There's a lot of, I guess, the idea that we need to respect the process or the law more than anything, which isn't entirely true, but that's the narrative they use that I believe to enable the Republicans. And, you know, looking at just briefly how the DSA has been getting more momentum in these candidates winning primaries, these Democrats who keep talking about voting blue no matter who are outwardly undermining them and in some

cases endorsing Republicans. And, you know, when I look at something like that, I just don't know how anyone can really look at the Democrat Party at this point and see that they're a viable opposition when they spend most of their energy going after the Democrats or the progressives who really want more real change as opposed to the status quo. And I was just kind of wondering what you thought about that.

Speaker 1: Well, I think I take issue with your premise that Obama accomplished not much during his eight years. I think a great deal was accomplished. I also think if I have a complaint about the Democratic Party outside of John Fetterman... that they are enabling the Republicans or supporting Republican ideas because they're busy going after the progressive. I'm not seeing that as much. I am seeing a culture where they hold another press conference to complain about what's going on,

expecting that to cause real change. Meanwhile, the MAGA white right is breaking every rule and stomping democracy into the dust while we are, you know, blinking and saying, this is so very wrong. So the idea that the Democrats will be able to win without playing hardball is a fantasy and it frustrates me. Get Chuck Schumer off television.

Nobody gives a shit about what Schumer has to say about anything. organize yourself, and understand the power of the media is largely being used properly and weaponized by the opposition. The Democrats have to be able to come out. Not the word propaganda, that's not the word I want, but messaging.

Go hard, go constant, and don't let up. Be relentless. Just play some freaking hardball. And the fact that we are so rules-based and so decorum-based, I think, has defanged us in the wake of a totalitarian state. I'm frustrated, but I'll help. Blue no matter who, that's me. I'm not going to vote for anybody representing the Republican Party or the conservatives or the right wing, etc. That's the

last thing I want. I would take a flawed, a very flawed blue candidate over anybody representing the Republican Party. That's just me. Speaker 6: And yeah, just to be clear, I'm not saying therefore vote for Republicans. This is in no way an endorsement of them. What I'm trying to say is that narrative has been used by some Democrats, if not all, to justify, you know, candidates who effectively don't offer a lot of real opposition outside of some of the superficialities that I

think you're talking about. You know, if if our Democrat alternative, whatever they're running for, you know, if they support Israel, if they vote to fund ICE, if they oppose abolish the police, if they still scapegoat 9-11 on Muslims in general, as opposed to all the nuances of American imperialism that created those conditions, you know, how different of an option is that really, you know, from the Republican? And I

I think that's at least a fair question that we need to consider in some cases. Speaker 1: Well, we have to understand there is such a thing as a lesser evil. If we have someone who is problematic on Israel and Gaza, hashtag Kamala Harris, although she did eventually come forward and begin to speak out, but I think in a very much too measured way. If we see people who, you know, they have a problematic, perhaps overreaction to what we have seen on the right,

it doesn't mean that all things are equal and that they're equally bad. You and I have never seen anything remotely like we are seeing in this country. I hate the campaign, abolish the police. I don't think all cops are bastards, ACAB, which is a popular hashtag. I do think we have serious institutional issues. I do understand the idea that we as a society need to stop sending

armed law enforcement into situations that need de-escalation and unarmed social workers and those types of societal problem solvers. but eliminating the police, hugely misguided, and I hate the title of the campaign because it provides easy meat for the reductive right wing to further misrepresent us out there. But blue?

I think about the major pressing issues of the day, but starting with the border. If we're going to make legal immigration nearly impossible in this country, we need to stop demonizing illegal immigration and understand the plight of people who simply want to cross a border where they and their families can be safe. They are not the cause of our problems. They're not the main source of our violence in this country. They are not taking all of our jobs. They are not the villain that the right wing has made them out to be. That's a blue thing.

A legalization of drugs, gun regulation, abolishing the death penalty, condemning Netanyahu for the Gaza genocide, understanding that America is not the world, nationalized health care, understanding that we have a responsibility to have an institute and protect and fund social programs for our society. This is all blue. So I don't think they're remotely equivalent. I think right now, I don't care who the Dem is. I don't care if it's Kamala Harris's pet cat. That's where my checkmark's

going in the midterms, okay? Speaker 6: Okay. Well, I, you know, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. And if you want to identify Blue as, you know, progressive and leftist values, then I can agree with you on that. But I think, you know, at least in the case of some candidates, which you've mentioned yourself, Harris, Fetterman, Schumer, just for starters, and I hate to say it, but I think to even a smaller extent, AOC as of late for what she said about Israel, There has been

a marked difference between what would be the blue platform and what these candidates stand for. Speaker 1: Well, if I may, you and I are stuck. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Right now, we're putting the house fire out, and we have two options.

One is a faulty hose full of water, and the other is gasoline. And it's one of the reasons I get so frustrated with people who protest their way out of the process or they vote for a fringe candidate that will never get elected is I feel like we have to understand that right now the perfect is the enemy of the good. We got to put the fire out and then let's figure out how to rebuild after.

And it's imperfect and it's messy and it's not satisfying and it makes people crazy, including me and you. But it may be all we've got right now, Drew. Speaker 6: Maybe so. And, you know, that's That's a bit depressing, to be honest. Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 6: I just I just don't see how, you know, and I don't mean to single Harris out or Harris on Biden specifically. But, you know, when Biden is openly, you know, when he reaffirms his commitment to something like capitalism or when he shut down the railroad strike. Or, you know, again, when Harris not only she was not only dismissive of the issues of imperialism and genocide, she was extremely condescending,

had people thrown out. And I know those are just a couple. examples, but I do think, you know, these systemic issues are all interconnected. Like, I don't think, you know, the issue of imperialism is separate from the issue of capitalism and powerful corporations because they're all connected. That's what funds it. And, you know, if you certainly want to make the case that someone on, say, the Democrats is slightly less evil than someone on the Republicans, I'm not

necessarily going to disagree with that point. I do think it's a stretch to look at some of these establishment candidates and their open stances and to go as far as to call them good. Speaker 1: I think AOC is good. I know she takes it in the teeth on Fox News. I know some people hate the fact that she's a Democratic Socialist. But time and again, with a few exceptions, Israel, she is on the right side. And she goes hard. She goes hard

at corporations. She goes hard at big pharma. She goes hard at laissez-faire capitalism. And I appreciate that. I don't think they're slightly less evil. I don't think the liberal ticket is slightly less evil. I think it is monumentally less evil. And it's not for merely tribalistic reasons. It's case by case, issue by issue, flawed as they are, and occasionally weak as they are. They are on the right side of history and human rights issues. And you

and I are frustrated because there are massive holes that need to be filled. There are repairs that need to be made. It is monumentally imperfect, and these people can be hugely frustrating. But I don't see them as slightly different. There is no contest, no comparison. It is night and day.

So this is going to be an easy blue vote for me. But I do share your frustration and I understand it. I don't know what's going to happen in the midterms, but I am myself convinced and so is my wife that if we do see a blue wave and we see kind of a red bloodbath, I think that's good for democracy and decency.

Speaker 2: Okay? Speaker 6: Okay. Fair enough. Speaker 5: All right. Speaker 1: Well, that's cool. I mean, you and I, we have varying perspectives on it, but I think it's a productive conversation. And I think this has spurred what will be more conversation in the comments. So let's just see what everybody else says and let's watch the news and see how the midterms shake out. Okay, my friend?

Speaker 6: Sounds good, Seth. Keep up the good work. Speaker 1: It's nice talking to you. We'll see you later. Do you think they're close to equivalent? Do you think that the lesser of two evils is not all that much less? I think of the values that I have as a human being and as a humanist. I look at the left and the right. For me, it's not even close.

Do people have the right to be able to survive in our economy? Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 1: Well, right now, the oligarchs don't really care. It's sort of a social Darwinism, filtering out the weak and the poor, favoring the rich. Should people have to go bankrupt paying for medicines?

Speaker 2: Nope. Speaker 10: Nope. Speaker 1: Why don't we have a nationalized health system when so many other developed nations have it and use it successfully? Are guns more important to us than the lives of our school children? That's not a difficult distinction to make.

Left and right, red and blue. Is a gateway drug that's going to drag us into the mires of sin and debauchery really weed? Which party is trying to jam the Ten Commandments and other Christian symbolism and teaching and indoctrination and programming into our public institutions? It ain't blue.

It's red. It's the conservative evangelical Republicans who are the war hawks who celebrate Pete Hegseth and the Department of War as we are indiscriminately, really, slaughtering people in other places in the world. It's not the left. It's not blue.

who stands blindly behind Netanyahu and says Israel at all costs because the Bible. You've seen, we've seen politicians in this country, they are excusing our foreign policy positions based on Scripture, on Christian Scripture. And if you recently saw J.D. Vance, he essentially admitted that, hey, if whatever's going on right now brings about the rapture in the end times, I'm okay with it. That's more than terrifying. You wouldn't have

heard that from Kamala Harris or Joe Biden or Barack Obama, right? Who wants to tax the billionaires? Who wants to tax the churches? Who is standing up to defend state-church separation in a pluralistic democracy? Who is defending Muslims and LGBT people and hasn't vilified trans people?

Speaker 7: It's blue. Speaker 1: These are liberal values. I just don't see them as close. We can find examples where the Democrats are fuck-ups because they often are. But it's still not even close. The perfect is the enemy of the good. How am I doing on time here? Let me do one final short break and be back and we'll take the remainder of

your calls on this show about those who are slowing up the lane for the rest of us and how do we get to our destination in one piece. Hang on.

I've got Paul Tao. What's going on, Paul? Let's talk. Speaker 7: Well, on September 10th, they're going to be doing something, Republican Party's going to be doing something unusual. They're having a Republican National Midterm Convention, which they'd normally only do, from what I understand, during presidential years. But having a national convention just to rally the base, and they're doing it in Dallas, Texas on September 10th. And I see

that Indivisible Dallas, IndivisibleDallas.org, they've got a protest scheduled to counter that. I'm thinking of actually going there to be part of the protest. And I have something kind of interesting. This is an old news story that kind of flew under the radar for a lot of the general public.

Until recently, I used to live in Huntsville, Texas. It's the headquarters of the state prison system, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. In Abilene, there was a seven-month pregnant prison guard who started feeling labor pains while on the job.

And she told her supervisor. The supervisor didn't really believe her. It wouldn't let her leave until someone came to replace her. No one came to replace her for two hours. By the time she was able to get off work and get to a hospital, it was too late. The baby was born dead. But the guard and the father wanted that child. They sued the state for compensation. And Ken Paxton, who's now running for U.S. Senate, in court, he argued

against their lawsuit, partly on the basis that he said it wasn't clear that the fetus had rights. And Ken Paxton, of course, claims to be pro-life and all that. So it's just the hypocrisy of that is just absolutely astounding.

I mean, it should go without saying that for the sake of the mother and the child, if a She needs medical attention pronto. So I protested about this with my Black Lives Matter group when I was in Huntsville. I did that extensively in 2024 and then also pro-choice protest once a week. And no matter who I spoke to, whether they were part of my BLM group, like kind

of on the left, or whether they were hardcore MAGA people, not a single person of the roughly 150 or so people I spoke to was in support of what the TDCJ did or what Ken Paxton did to that family. The problem is most people don't even know about this story.

So what I'm thinking of doing is going to this protest at the Republican convention, the very moment they're trying to rally the base, and help Ken Paxton in this close race against James Taurico. And they're doing it in Dallas because they're scared that Paxton might lose. It's like, come in and drop a metaphorical bomb on that with something like this. I would get this story some more attention.

I would have like a shirt with just a giant QR code on the back and the sign, the shirt with the QR code, and I would have printed copies of the article to hand out. I just wonder what you think about the story or my idea of protesting.

Speaker 1: I don't know how wise my opinion really is here. I'm all about protest. I participate in protest. I think protest is healthy and necessary. Do I think convention goers are going to be listening if they're hardcore enough to attend a pro-Ken Paxton event? I kind of think they're closed systems. I would be more interested in the media outside, as you'd mentioned, people who are curious, maybe if there's

a sign that can have a bullet point or three about it that might plant a seed in somebody's brain when they show up. But I myself, and then the question is, will they really get a convention bump? Is anybody going to be like, well, I wasn't going to vote for Ken Paxton, but now that they've had a convention and we rallied, Now he's going to surge. I'm not necessarily convinced. You know, it's funny. In Oklahoma, Mike

Mazie just won the Republican primary. He is now the Republican candidate for governor. And a lot of people were pissed off that a Trump-endorsed candidate is going to be going up for governor. And I had an opposite view.

I thought, You know what? Run Mike Mazey. Run the guy who has grafted himself to Donald Trump and has Trump on his website and has Trump on his TV and radio ads and is running with Trump, grafted to him.

I want to see a candidate run on Trump in November because I kind of think this would be an easier candidate to beat. But as far as you're concerned, hey, go protest the hell out of it. You know, pound that drum and keep the message simple. I wouldn't have a lot of hope you're going to make a dent with convention goers. But if the media is there, maybe you might find an opportunity to get on camera or in front of a microphone. And if you can practice

it concisely, explain what the problem is and why people should care. Okay, Paul? Speaker 7: Yeah, I can tell you what I got the text of the sign. It's a baby born dead, Texas prison guard, Wendell Labor, not allowed to leave work for two hours. Speaker 6: That's the front.

Speaker 7: And the back says baby born dead in court. Ken Paxson says fetus didn't have rights. Hypocrite. Speaker 1: I mean, that's a conversation starter if I've ever heard one. And Ken's name is in the messaging. And I think that's a good place to start. Thank you, Paul. Speaker 7: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Igor dialing in from looks like Germany. Are you there, my friend? Speaker 2: Hi, Sepp. Speaker 5: Yes, I'm in Germany now. And I wanted to ask you if you've ever heard about the party in Germany called AFD, which stands for Alternative for Germany.

Speaker 1: I have not heard of AFD. Tell me more. Speaker 5: Well, basically, this party wasn't taken seriously just like 10 to 15 years ago. But with each federal election, they gain more votes than the other parties like the Greens, for example. especially in parts of East Germany, which was under the Soviet occupation until the 90s. But most of

their program basically copies your MAGA movement in the United States, like their anti-immigration, anti-asylum for refugees, like myself, for example. anti-EU, anti-trans and abortion, etc. And of course, they are supporting lifting the sanctions from Russia, even despite the war in Ukraine.

So I've been wondering lately whether they were influenced and maybe sponsored by the same wealthy white people from overseas, or is it like a natural process where once you're white conservative, you find yourself feeling persecuted and checking all those other boxes too?

Speaker 6: What do you think? Speaker 1: I can't speak to how the organization is being fueled and funded. I have had conversations about these sort of cyclical rises of right-wing movements in otherwise relatively advanced societies.

And you think, well, where does that come from? And there is a lot of psychology behind people who are part of a white privileged class. And all of a sudden they see what they consider to be an attack on their supremacy. They're afraid of the different. They look around and say, oh my God, I'm uncomfortable. What do I do to restore my world to what was comfortable decades ago? And of course, that world often looks very

white and very male and very right-wing. And I never would have thought we would have seen the rise of the The neo-Nazi, the white Christian nationalism. I thought we were going to become more and more of a secular nation with more progressive values, much more diversified, much more in celebration of diversity. I've been so monumentally naive. But the idea that there's essentially another neo-Nazi movement in Germany blows my mind.

Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right. And basically here in Germany, they're very careful with revealing their views openly because they know people will say, like, do you want to go back to the like 1945 and etc. So they you kind of can understand who supports the party when they use all these phrases like, you know, what does it mean to be the real German? Or it was better, like you said, right?

It was better when I was young. And what are our values? Or, for example, I heard recently most immigrants are violent and especially those Muslims, right, from Turkey. And, of course, this party will make sure that if there's an immigrant who's violent, they'll make sure it's all over the Internet and the news. But if it's like a German doing anything wrong, nobody's going to talk about it or maybe like locally somewhere.

Speaker 1: And we just had it happen here. Everybody's talking about the Muslims. They're all jihadist and they want Sharia law in America. They want to strip us of all of our liberties and they're jihadist. They want to destroy people. Meanwhile, on my newsfeed this morning, out of KFOR in Oklahoma City, another pastor had been molesting people in his youth group for decades. No one on Fox News is talking about that.

They're busy talking about trans people and Muslims. Speaker 5: Well, yeah, here in Germany, it's basically like there's separation of church and state. Like if you want to be part of it, you have to pay your taxes. So many people leave the church. So I think they also freak out like all these conservative folks that less and less people are religious. Although, yeah, I understand, like basically the more people are educated, the less they believe. And

even if they're taught religion at school, I've seen it basically how they teach it. They ask after reading some verse, for example, from the Bible, what do you think? Do you think it's morally wrong or is it good? And a kid can say their opinion without the teacher telling them what to think.

Speaker 6: I don't know. Speaker 1: I don't have any great wisdom on world affairs. And Trank, I don't really have any great wisdom on anything. Igor, I'm just, I think I'm as nonplussed as anybody else looking around at this crazy world thinking, you know, I wish people would meet other people. I wish people would engage with the different and understand that they ain't all that scary. I wish people would learn when to engage with their fellow human beings and when they need to

mind their own damn business. I wish people would stop being so tribalistic and thinking that their nation is the world. I wish people were more interested in love instead of hate. They want a larger world and not a smaller world. There's so many things that I wish. You know, I find myself singing John Lennon's Imagine in my brain, Igor, and wondering what the world might look like. Not just with the absence of fundy religion, but the absence of

these weird tribal bigotries and pettiness. You know, the unnecessary reasons that we human brothers and sisters divide against each other. and harm each other. Imagine, right? Imagine. Speaker 5: I enjoyed talking to you and listening to your podcast, Seth.

Speaker 2: Thank you. Speaker 1: And thank you for the call. It's a tragic thing to watch these small people scrambling for power and influence, maybe indoctrinating other disaffected people or, you know, programmed people. Who knows the people that they are targeting? But you and I got to go out and counter that with love and egalitarianism, humanism, and I wish you all the best over there, okay?

Speaker 5: Thank you. Speaker 1: I appreciate you. That's going to do it for today. I am trying to decide the order of these live presentations I'm going to release in audio form as the videos are going out. First of all, of course, the Unholy Trinity. That video I think I've scheduled for September the 29th, and I want the audio of it to go out. It was an amazing day in Fort Worth.

And then I gave this speech at BajaCon, and I have the video and audio of that, as we talk about all the times that we skeptics share shit that isn't real. You and I pointed, everybody else, especially religious people and right-wingers, etc., and we're like, God, where'd you get your information? Fox News? That's disinformation. This is unvetted.

This is AI. This is obviously a fake. Why haven't you done your due diligence? And then you and I go and we see something that appeals to our bias or sounds like it would be true, and we like and share without one iota of fact-checking. And we get it wrong all the time. And what's amazing is that we protest that we don't get it wrong, or if we do, it doesn't really matter. And I did a

whole presentation about the splinter in our eye in the skeptical community, knowing that a percentage, especially on YouTube, a percentage of people are just going to turn on me. So maybe I'm a masochist. Maybe this is self-destructive behavior.

I'm trying to figure out when to release that. So anyway, I'm working on— there' s some stuff coming up. And then I've got Brad Onishi. He is an Oxford graduate and a scholar of religion, a fierce opponent of Christian nationalism, with a new book releasing this month. It's called American Caesar, How Theocrats and Tech Lords Are Turning America Into a Monarchy.

And he's going to be on the show to talk about the research that he has done and what you and I might be able to do about it. Lots of good stuff on the horizon. And I will see you then. Take care. Speaker 3: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter. Speaker 10: For a complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and T-shirts featuring The Thinking Atheist logo, links to Atheist pages and resources, and details on upcoming Freethought events and conventions, log on to our website.

Speaker 3: Thethinkingatheist.com