Is It Moral to Celebrate When He's Dead?

Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. Speaker 2: Stand by. Three, two, one. Speaker 3: The thinking atheist. It's not a person. It's a symbol. An idea. Speaker 4: The population of atheists in this country is. Speaker 2: Going through the roof. Speaker 3: Rejecting faith. Pursuing knowledge. challenging the sacred if i tell the truth it's because i tell the truth not because i put my hand on a book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world.

Speaker 1: Take the risk of thinking for yourself much more happiness truth beauty and wisdom will come to you that. Speaker 3: Way assume nothing question everything and start thinking this is the thinking atheist podcast Hosted by Seth Andrews.

Speaker 4: What you are about to hear is a series of conversations and phone calls which took place before the midterm blue tsunami, before the Democrats and their historic win and the retaking of the House and the Senate. So occasionally you may hear some references to the upcoming midterms. We don't know what's going to happen during the midterms, etc.

And I went ahead and left those in there. The conversation is not about the midterms nearly as much as it's about our current commander-in-chief. And our listeners had so many things to say. I have a confession to make.

I have what is a bottle of Pinot Grigio. I don't even drink. I mean, occasionally I'll have a sip of something. But I had these labels made. And on the label is the outline of Donald Trump's head. And the words say, open when it happens. And we know what it is because people are talking about it. One day, we will log on and there will be a notification.

There will be a news story, a headline. And we will say, aha. And people will say, he is gone. He has passed away. The blood clot has done its job. His heart stopped. He slipped and fell down the stairs and that was it. We don't need to hear who he is because we know. And then there will be people who pop the cork and we will celebrate. And I am not above it. I feel it in my bones.

I feel it. I feel the need to celebrate. I in my life have never, ever, ever had this sensation inside. To celebrate someone's passing. Now, I have to say this at the very beginning and not just because I, you know, I don't want to visit from the Secret Service. I'm not talking about somebody taking him out. I oppose that.

I don't want to live in that world. We've talked about this with Charlie Kirk and others, right? The fact that they were cretins in real life and did real harm in real life doesn't mean I'm going to live in a world where people are assassinating each other, right? That is not the solution to our cultural problem. I know there are a lot of people who disagree and they wish the bullet had been six inches to the right or whatever. I'm not that guy. And it's about the society that I want to live in, and it's

about my own humanity. And I don't think that's unfair. We need to be civilized, and we live in a society, and I think we need to retain our goodness. I'm talking about natural causes. I'm talking about the bad cholesterol.

I'm talking about, you know, he ends up under the wheel of Air Force One, something that is sort of like act of God or natural causes. The guy's freaking 80, okay? We are stuck with the reality that once he's gone, the system that brought him about will remain. Donald Trump is both cancer and symptom of the cancer. And so we will be stuck with the J.D. Vances and the Mike Johnsons and all of the cretins who have infected

the GOP, right? They will remain. But I will say, they don't have that cult of personality vibe. They aren't a brand in that way. I also think they are going to chew each other to ribbons. The rattlesnakes are already turning on each other. And I think it's for self-serving reasons. They're starting to see that finally some lines are being crossed. He's making these odd noises. He's talking

about Nicki Minaj's ass. He is defending that horrible ad which betrays the victim of sexual assault. Finally, for the worst of reasons, too, I saw there was an article published Was it in USA Today about a rancher in Montana?

And he finally turned on Trump because he had had enough of this crap. Why did he turn on Trump? Because all of his costs had gone up and he couldn't afford to live. And I tagged USA Today and I said, I fixed your headline. Arsonist is upset because his own house is on fire. The Leopard's Eating Faces Party is now eating my face, is normally how we say it. I saw an article that was posted in Salon.

I'm going to read part of it for you while I wait for your calls to populate, because I want to talk about this primal instinct, this feeling that I have. I, the teddy bear of the movement, the Mr. Rogers of atheist activism, and I feel so strongly about it that I had a wine bottle with a custom label made and at the ready for when it happens. And I'm okay with it. But should I be okay with it?

Am I an immoral person? And when that day comes, if I go out and have a bunch of orange balloons and I take a pen and just systematically pop them and then cackle to the sky, will I be a horrible human being?

Speaker 5: Or. Speaker 4: Will I be someone who just feels like justice has been served? There are some people who only benefit the species by their absence. This all-life-is-precious bullshit has got to go. But again, I'm not endorsing someone take him out. I'm talking about something else is happening. He reaches his expiration date naturally. In Salon, this is from Alan J. Lichtman,

published in October. Every president leaves a signature accomplishment. Abraham Lincoln preserved the Union. Franklin Roosevelt rescued capitalism from itself. Donald Trump's will be something no predecessor ever attempted. He has done more than any American in history to convince his fellow citizens that their votes are not counted honestly. Now, this is airing after the midterms, but the article published before.

And the argument remains that his legacy will be that he casts doubt on any election that doesn't go his way. The article says that dubious achievement belongs in the first line of his obituary. On October 18th, 60 Minutes reported that in the 21 months of his second term, Trump has said, in so many words, the vote can't be trusted more than 150 times. This is not the grievance

of a defeated candidate. It's the drumbeat of the sitting president who won an historic election in 2024, controls the executive branch, and he also controls the legislative and judicial, by the way, and still insists the system that elected him is rotten. The record is not hard to find.

The day before his second inauguration, Trump told a crowd at a rally in Washington, D.C., that he would be president for the 2026 World Cup and the 2028 Olympics, which he would have missed had he won in 2020, only, quote, because they rigged the election. In February and again in April 2026, he posted that Americans' elections are rigged, stolen, and a laughingstock all over the world, adding, we are either going to fix them or we won't have a

country any longer. In September, at the Republican National Committee's midterm convention, He told supporters, I'm going to try and cheat like hell like they do. He doubled down on those claims earlier this month when he posted that vote counts, quote, take weeks to rig. I mean, calculate. Voting in America is corrupt. And on October 16th in Georgia, he declared

that Senator John Ossoff, quote, lost that election in 2020, but they gave it to him because it was a rigged election. So, according to the article in Salon, his legacy, the first line of his obituary should be that he cast doubt on the elections. I completely disagree. Although it is a big one. It's big. But lying liars are going to lie. And this is just one. And if

we rank them, is that really what I want to lead with? And I think probably not. If it was me, I think I would lead with the fact that he was a sexual predator. I mean, even beyond the grift, the fact that he filled his pockets using the Oval Office to the tune of billions of dollars and he scammed and he sold $ 800 watches with his fucking name on it and golden tennis shoes and meme coins and crypto and everything else. And he was able to secretly

conduct all these deals. I mean, that's massive. And it should be number two or three in the list. But I think number one has to be about the abuse, the sexual abuse of human beings. What is it, 24 or 25 women have come forward with accusations of sexual assault or abuse or outright rape or whatever, and tens of millions of Americans, many of them evangelical, Jesus-professing Christians,

decided it was not a deal-breaker. He admitted he's a sexual predator. I don't even wait. When you're a star, they let you do it. I moved on her like a bitch. I grabbed her by the pussy. Jesus, how does this happen? That's what you lead with. And that alone is enough for me to think. When he's gone, the net level of humanity rises several feet. And I

will celebrate. I'm not a dancer, but I will probably dance. I'm not a partier, but I will probably party. I'm not a drinker, but I shall drink. Does that make me a bad person? And how do you feel? How do you feel logically? And how do you feel down deeper in your bones? I want to know. So let's find out, shall we? I've got Clayton dialing in from 214. Clayton, are you there?

Speaker 5: I am. Speaker 4: Welcome to the show. We're talking about our baser instincts, I guess. Do you have a thought on the subject at hand? Speaker 5: Sure do. Will I celebrate? Yeah, of course I will. But I'd celebrate more if he strokes out and gets to see how this country just erases him everywhere and how the people that have supported him will begin to claim they never did. That will be even better.

Speaker 4: So you'd like to see him incapacitated, but he's able to see and hear. He still has his senses. and he watches the country move on without him, and all the people who kissed his ass decide they're done with him. Speaker 5: Yeah, he's obviously going to avoid prison, where he really should have been. So this is the next best thing, I believe.

Speaker 4: That's actually pretty good. You know, the one thing that, especially in our media, we have given him or gifted him that we should not have is all the attention. Every headline, every day, we wake up and go, what madness are we going to be presented with next? And when he freaks out is when people aren't talking about him.

And it seems like he was doing a rally or a speech or something just a few weeks ago, and it was not covered on the major networks, including Fox News, and he lost his mind. So I do like the idea that people start to move on and they start to care less, and he is just lying there unable to do anything about it. And he's miserable. I take joy in his misery. Does that make me a bad person, Clayton? No.

Speaker 2: No. Speaker 5: This guy has done so much harm to this country, arguably to the world. The damage he has done to our standing in the world, I'm an old Marine. In fact, I'm born and raised in Broken Arrow. Speaker 6: I live in Dallas now. Speaker 5: I'm an old Marine, and I've been just absolutely disgusted with him and just at wit's end what we could do to repair our relationships with our allies and keep all the world's boats afloat and moving higher as we

did for 80 years subsequent to World War II. Speaker 4: Since you are a veteran, what do you think the vibe is among the rank and file? Actually, I'm curious about the generals. We know the generals think he's full of shit, but why aren't more of them speaking out?

Speaker 5: Yeah, a son-in-law of mine is currently a captain in the United States Army, and he's given me some great hope. He says the vast majority of his peers are disgusted with him, says maybe there's about 10%. And this is anecdotal, of course, right? But he served at several duty stations now, so it's a good, smallish sample size. And he said that the troops, the more junior the troops, the more

Trump they are. But the senior NCOs are far less so. But there seems to be a great and rising disgust within the armed forces towards him. And Secretary Kegsbreath hasn't done any good towards that either.

Speaker 4: Pete Kegsbreath. Is that what I heard? Speaker 5: Oh, did I mispronounce his name? Speaker 4: That's awesome. That's awesome. And it's fun to watch Obama roast him. It was somebody who was like, all right, he thinks he's a big manly man, but doesn't he travel with the makeup trailer and, you know, all these other things where he's talking about. And then I think Hegseth and others, Trump as well, have this very shallow schoolyard junior high idea of what true strength and masculinity

and manhood are, you know. For them, it's how many people can you beat up and how much can you bang your chest and those types of things. They don't understand the concept of what true measured tempered strength really is, right? Which is advocating for others. Don't be the bully, but stand up against the bullies. It's easier to destroy than it is to build. And when I see these guys, I think these guys just never grew up, right? They're embryonic in their thinking.

Speaker 5: I agree, and you used the word bully, and that's exactly probably what they have been their entire lives, and they've never been punched in the nose to put them down. Speaker 4: You going to celebrate on that day when it happens? Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. I fly my flag. I used to fly the Stars and Stripes most every day. Since 2018, I only fly it upside down on Flag Day, the 4th of July, and on New Year's Day. I will hang

it back right up. the right way from henceforth, from that day forward. Speaker 4: I don't mean to keep you... Let me ask you this. The last 10 years, like, I've never been a big flag guy. The symbols of America have never really given me that, you know, tear in my eye and the goosebumps, the eagles, you know, all that type of stuff, the Americana, where everybody looks like a firework. But the last 10 years have ruined the American flag. When I see somebody

flying a flag from the front of their house, when I see a flag on their window or on their bumper or somewhere else, I assume the worst. I assume that they are a right-wing, evangelical, conservative, MAGA, Trump-supporting bigot. And I know that's not fair, but it's how I feel.

Do you relate to that? Speaker 5: I can understand it, and I'm saddened by that feeling. I do have my wife sometimes emotes the same feeling, and I have to dissuade her of that. There are plenty of patriots out there that aren't MAGA.

Speaker 4: Like they're reclaiming the flag. Is that what I'm hearing? Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 5: It's not their flag. It's our flag. Speaker 4: I buy that. Speaker 5: So now I'm getting emotional myself. Speaker 4: It seems to be a culture of symbols. It used to be I'd see there would be an American flag and then a Confederate flag and then a MAGA flag, you know, like MAGA or alter a MAGA or Trump or whatever. Not seeing quite as many Trump flags these days.

I think a lot of people are quiet quitting the cult, or at least some are. Has that been your experience? Speaker 5: You know, I live here in Dallas, in East Dallas, and this is quite the blue dot in the larger Red Sea of Texas. But there were still plenty of Trump signs and Trump flags around until– there weren't nearly as many in 2024 as there was up through 2020. However,

there are almost none now I see now. So it is definitely quiet quitting. That's a good way to state it. I believe there's a great disgust even among– Well, certainly among people that probably didn't call themselves MAGA MAGA, but were still Trump supporters. I think there is the core MAGA are still there. But are they what, 16, 18 percent of the country now versus he may have had 22 or 24 percent of that real full on culture.

So I think he might be losing some of that core MAGA. And he certainly lost a lot of, you know, the typical business type Republicans, those chamber of commerce types, the foreign policy conservatives that some might call neocons. He's lost them, for sure.

Speaker 4: I appreciate your perspective on this, and thanks for the service, your military service. It always sounds a little bit like a platitude, thank you for your service. It almost sounds like a bumper sticker. But a lot of people like to criticize the military, but I have a great appreciation for it. I grieve a little bit that there's so much that they cannot say or do at the risk of their reputations and careers at this point when they have families to support. And I know there probably will

be some parties by people in uniform. Maybe it won't be in front of their commanding officer, but I have a feeling there will be some toasting going on. Clayton, thanks so much for calling. I appreciate you very much. Speaker 5: Thank you, Seth. All right. Speaker 4: We'll see you later. Yeah, I'm one of those people where I like the fact that we have unarmed forces.

I am grieved by people who have made it their entire identity and who do have a very shallow sort of superior, almost a fetishizing of violence, you know, when it comes to that, where they just love their, they love the weapons of death. I think there were others who really respect the power that the military has and understand the role of a military to keep us safe, etc., But, you know, there is an entire culture of people who

were like, you mess with America, we'll have a drone drop rain, fire, and death upon you. You know, that kind of thing. And, you know, they seem to have, I don't know, the military's become their personality. But if you are someone who is watching and listening and you have served, I do appreciate you very much. And I see you and I respect the commitment that you made and the sacrifices made. that you made. I know there

is a healthy incarnation of an American military, and I hope we can return to that as well. So many calls and so many opinions still to come. Short break. Be right back. Thanks to my patrons for sort of picking up the slack. It's a volatile time for online

content creators. YouTube and Apple and everybody, they all just shift everything around and the percentages change and the numbers change and the requirements change and it's occasionally just, it's crazy. Like we're at their mercy to a degree and that's just the world we live in. But patrons help to take up the slack and cover the difference. So if you appreciate the show and like what you hear, you can subscribe for whatever you decide you want to subscribe

for at patreon.com slash Seth Andrews. Vincent is dialing in from 631. Welcome, Vincent. Are you there? Speaker 7: Yes, I am, Seth. Speaker 2: I am here. Speaker 7: It's always great hearing from you, Vincent. How you been, by the way?

Speaker 4: I am semi-conscious and trying to, I don't know, trying to claw my way through what feels like a fascist dissolving of a culture that I once actually really appreciated. So what's on your mind? What do you think about all this stuff? Will you party hardy when the time comes, is the question.

Speaker 7: To be honest with you, Seth, I saw this way coming years and years and years and years prior to Because, I mean, look at all the number of people that have been very controversial, like Rush Limbaugh, Henry Kissinger, even Charlie Kirk. When these people die, people don't really mourn these deaths anymore. I mean, maybe in some instances, sure, but more and more people just openly celebrate deaths of people that, fair or not, have done a lot of

harm to a lot of people with their words, with their actions. Speaker 5: Etc. Speaker 7: I mean, when Lindsey Graham died, a lot of people were rightfully celebrating because of all the wars that he had no problem supporting. When Mitch McConnell dies, he will absolutely get tons of people celebrating his death. And even when it comes to, you know, other people, you know, Dick Cheney, when he died, people celebrated. When Donald Rumsfeld died, people celebrated. This is going to be no different from Trump,

if not even larger, because Trump is widely reviled throughout the entire world. So yeah, I'm not shocked. And I also wasn't shocked when people celebrate when Brian Thompson was gunned down by Luigi Mangione. People want to see more assassinations or more deaths of these people that have done tremendous harm and tremendous suffering to countless people that are in less privileged situations. I can't blame them for feeling that way. Yeah, I'd probably be celebrating too.

Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on the assassinations? That's going to be a potential point of division. I mean, I don't want to live in a country where people just decide they're going to grab a weapon and off the people who are awful. And I hate the word slippery slope, but I think it's immoral on its face. That's not how we solve our problems. But then it's the Wild West.

Anybody can take out anybody and call it justified. Is that the country and the world we want to live in, Vincent? Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. Speaker 7: You know, I've always said that openly people want to openly say they want to see more assassinations like like in general. I don't want to see more assassinations, but it's true that with all the innocents that are killed, whether it be by bureaucratic reasons, political reasons or just,

you know, pure violence. You hate seeing that, but when it's someone that is in a very powerful position that has done harm to countless people, you can't blame people for being happy about it because it's someone that actually caused harm. It's not like a child or anything. It's not even like a wonderful adult that has brought great joy to others. It's someone that caused legitimate harm. I

understand why people are that way now. Would I ever do that? Absolutely not. Not at all. I think it is immoral. But, you know, people could also argue about this stuff because morality in itself is a very subjective construct. Was it moral for what Lindsey Graham did throughout his life, hiding his sexuality and also being someone that has made the lives of other people horrible? Was it morally right for what Mitch McConnell did by screwing over Merrick Garland

and installing Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett? Speaker 5: No. Speaker 7: Was it moral for any of the stuff that Trump has done? Speaker 8: Absolutely not. Speaker 7: But guess what? They do it because they think it's the right thing to do. So, yeah, you can't blame people for feeling like it's the right thing to do if they want to see them pass. In a way, I understand why people go that way. I genuinely do.

Speaker 4: Well, I think your words reflect the feelings of a great many people, and I'll admit I can relate to it as well. Vincent, I so appreciate your input, and be safe out there, okay? Speaker 9: Thanks. Speaker 7: You too, Seth. And best of luck as always, and Keep the non-faith. Speaker 4: Keep the non-faith. May God be less. All right, Vincent, we'll see you later. We'll call it conditioned response. Like if Elon Musk was in a self-driving car collision and

no one else was hurt, but he did not survive. I would say, I mean, the world is a better place. It's a more safe place. I haven't yet seen the new Alex Gibney documentary called Musk, a four-hour documentary that I think he tried to suppress. Elon has threatened litigation over it, even though he hadn't seen it when he threatened litigation. I think for a while, was it TikTok

or Instagram or somebody was banning or deleted the account for the film, for the documentary? But the people who have seen it are coming out saying that this is terrifying how much power one person wields. We have certainly seen it in Ukraine. We've seen him dumping half a billion dollars into the midterm elections here. And I'm one of those guys. I admire Tesla. I really do. the

top-selling sedan and the EV. I love the EV. I credit the actual designers of the Tesla vehicles, excluding the Cybertruck, right? We think, what was the one design that Elon had? It was one of the greatest failures. It became one of the greatest failures in the history of the automobile industry, which was the Cybertruck, right? Hey, would you like to spend too much money to drive something monumentally impractical and

drive in shame? That's the Cybertruck. And it will be a punchline for automotive historians for decades. a long, long time. But the actual, like the Y and the 3 and the S and the X, especially the Y and the 3, the people who drive them love them, and I love the EV. I heard somewhere that, this is a digression, I heard somewhere they're developing hydrogen-powered cars. They can get

like 5, 6, 7, 800 miles, and then you just replace the canister. And then I was like, well, wait a minute. Do I really want a big hydrogen tank behind me in a car? And then I thought, wait a minute. Well, how's that any different than having flammable liquid behind me or underneath me as I drive? Or batteries that actually, you know, if they catch fire, might be nearly impossible to put out until they burn out.

And is fuel a problem across the board? And I have all these other things. But Elon himself and the unbelievable, terrible power that he wields. And somebody else brought up a great point, and I will get to you in just a second, David, on the switchboard. When you see Elon Musk, who should be one of the most fulfilled and happy people in the history of history, somebody who has as much wealth as he has, if that is truly the hashtag American dream, he should be living it up.

He should be just fulfilled in his heart, waking up every day going, wow, how did I get to be me? And what can I do? What memory can I make? What good thing can we create and do and experience? How can I live my life? Big smile on his face.

And then he can give money to other people in a very healthy way where he's helping to better the society that helped to enrich him. And all of that would be just so different. But this is not who he is. This guy is the most pissy, whiny, cranky child ever. He just latches on to every piece of bile and venom anywhere. And that's all he does. The

guy's freaking miserable. You are a near trillionaire. What's wrong with you? What is wrong with you, Elon? Think of the good that a guy... like Elon could do in the world. Let's say he stopped at a billion dollars.

He said, you know what? No human being needs more than $ 999, 999, 999. Speaker 6: 99. Speaker 4: That seems like plenty for a single human being. I'm going to then give the rest of it away. I'm going to build shelters for the homeless. I'm going to make meals. We're going to fund the feeding of the hungry.

We're going to fuel and fund cancer research. We're going to have hospitals where people are not going bankrupt when they get sick. We're going to go through and subsidize pharmaceuticals and medications for people who desperately need their medicines and can't afford it. We're going to go in and we're going to revolutionize with technology the way goods are provided to the public, and they're going to be able to afford the groceries that they have. And you know what?

These cars, I'm the CEO of Tesla. We're going to find a way to make these cars available at an economical price to everybody, everywhere. We're going to revolutionize everything. Imagine the possibilities. And instead, he just sits over, and he gets his pants in a wad, and he whines and moans and bitches about everything.

Speaker 2: I swear. Speaker 4: And there was a time years and years ago when I simply knew his name and I saw his face and I saw an airbrush documentary about him. I don't remember what it was called. I found out after the fact that it was essentially produced by Tesla or some Elon adjacent promotional organization. But it was a love letter to Elon. Elon Musk, visionary, genius. And they show the Tesla and SpaceX and all these things. And it's amazing

the things he has accomplished to advance us forward. And afterwards, I was like, duh, this is a commercial. And so now I have to go see the Alex Gibney documentary and find out what all that is about. I was going to say something else. Oh, I think when I talk about the, I think Vincent brought up the assassination of the United Healthcare CEO. I understand people's feeling a

sense of justice. You and I live in a time when we are parceling out how much our deductible is before we have what we consider to be a necessary medical procedure. But the insurance company says, is this really necessary?

What's your co-pay? How long does it take to get into a doctor, especially a specialist? In this way, we don't feel like we have insurers. We feel like we have owners. And they get to control everything. They pull the strings. They decide which doors open and close, even though we are paying obscene amounts for our health care. Meanwhile, the UnitedHealthcare CEO pulling in eight figures plus what? Stock

options and everything else, living the life of Riley, not a care in the world. Difficult, if not impossible, to have sympathy for that person. At least in the moment. I will admit it is understandable. David, you've been most patient.

Thank you for calling the show. Are you there? Speaker 2: I am. Speaker 4: Let's talk. Will you celebrate when it happens, or did you want to talk about something else? Speaker 2: We're talking about the orange Jesus, right? Speaker 4: We're talking about Jesus? Not on this show, but I am curious.

Speaker 2: No, the orange. Speaker 4: Oh, forgive me. Orange Jesus. Yeah, we also call him Tangerine Palpatine. Yeah, we definitely call him. But Orange Jesus, yeah, I get that. Let's talk about Orange Jesus, David. What do you think? Speaker 2: No, I won't celebrate when he dies. I don't celebrate anybody's death.

Speaker 4: Well, what are your thoughts philosophically about it? Speaker 2: He's a reflection of the nation's corruption. His supporters need more accountability for elevating a convicted criminal and sexual deviant to the Christian nation, to the leadership of the Christian nation.

Speaker 4: How do you think that they should be punished? What consequences should his empowerers and enablers face? Speaker 2: That I can't tell you, because it's a cult. I grew up in, I mean, having grown up in a cult, it's hard to It reminds me of a book I read years ago called Willpower is Not Enough. I can't

remember the subtitle. There's a quote in it that says, a person convinced against their will will hold the same opinion still. It's the adage, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Or somebody, I think it was Christopher Hitchens, said you can provide information, but you can't make people think.

Speaker 4: Isn't that the truth? Speaker 2: I don't hate Donald Trump. Hating anybody is just a reflection on yourself. Speaker 4: I hate him. Speaker 2: You have to hate yourself. You have to care about somebody. Speaker 4: I hate the man. Speaker 2: To hate him. Speaker 4: I don't use the word hate in regard to... I just don't. And I'll admit to you, David, I don't find a single redeeming quality. All I see is destruction

and grift and childishness and awfulness. And for what he has done to this country and the people and causes I care about, I genuinely feel hate. And I'll admit it to you, right or wrong, that's where I'm at, brother. Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard because, again, I mean, it's hard for me to hate a complete stranger. I'm having a hard enough fighting not hating my own siblings.

Speaker 4: Well, hang on, Dave. Speaker 2: Hang on. Speaker 4: So if a total stranger came in and murdered your family, wouldn't it be relatively easy to understand the hate you would feel? For the murder, for the damage they've done, for stripping you of your loved ones, for taking human life. I mean, that wouldn't be hard, even though they were a stranger, right?

Speaker 2: It'd be very hard not to hate them. Speaker 4: But they're a stranger. Speaker 2: But that's the challenge. Speaker 4: So our fellow brothers and sisters on this planet, our fellow travelers, the people we share this world with, They're being abducted in the streets and shot in the face and they're being abandoned and sent to gulags and concentration camps and tortured and dehumanized and blah, blah, blah. It's,

I mean, hate is an understandable response, right or wrong. Speaker 2: Very much so. I had a license plate for 10 years that said empathy on it. Speaker 4: Empathy. Speaker 2: And I was surprised in Utah that it was even available.

I live in the Mormon Vatican, by the way. Speaker 4: Okay, help me out. So you just had a sticker with the word empathy, which I like, I think. Speaker 2: My license plate. Speaker 4: Your license plate. Thank you. I like the fact that we focus on empathy. There is a war on empathy.

We talk about people across the cultural and color and gender and religious spectrum who deserve our empathy. But is it understandable that Donald Trump, et cetera, fall into a different category? Speaker 2: Oh, very much so. But you have Elon Musk, as you were talking about a minute ago, him and Charlie Kirk claiming that empathy is a weakness.

Speaker 4: And we think empathy is strength. Anybody can smash things and flail with their fist and throw a tantrum. But to go out and build something and make the better world and advocate, that's harder. And it shows, you know, real tempered, mature and evolved kind of strength. And, David, I appreciate your contribution to the conversation today.

Speaker 2: Thank you. Speaker 5: All right. Speaker 4: Take care. So we called him Orange Jesus, which is a common nickname for Donald Trump. I didn't hear orange at the beginning. But I did pull up a list of other Donald Trump nicknames. These are listed on the Jimmy Kimmel Live page. We've got Alexander Scamilton, Benedict Arnold.

Blob Vila, Chin Jong-un, the commander in Thief Count Flatula, The Dictator Tot, Donye West, Emperor Palpatinehands, Engorge Washington, Fibaracci,

Flacido Domingo, Gaseous Clay, General Leisenhower. Groper Cleveland. Hippopotas. His A-Holiness. The Hungry Hungry Hypocrites. Kim Dong Un. Liger Woods. Maga Teresa.

Napoleon Bonasper. Nostradamus. Orange Julius Caesar. our fondling father, Petty Roosevelt, Pumpkin McPornhumper, Scammy Davis Jr., the MAGA Red Hatter, the MAGAlorian,

the Shart of the Deal, Unhappy Gilmore, Useless S. Grant, and the Yabba Dabba Doofus. Am I above chuckling at those? I am not. I am not. And I think comedy is a coping mechanism. It's a coping mechanism. Sometimes you have to laugh, and I think laughing at power, mocking

and ridiculing power, is tremendously powerful. I think these people desperate to be taken so seriously hate being made fun of. And that's one of the reasons that we do it. It's one of the reasons that the caricatures are so important.

And the people who are making the TikTok videos and pointing and laughing. And the guys from... Who are the pranksters who put the golden toilet out in front of the National Mall in honor of Donald Trump? And there was a golden statue of Trump dancing with Epstein. And they put those video games.

I think Donald Trump is bombing other countries and they made these arcade stand-up console video games and they just placed them out in, I think, in front of the White House or in front of the Lincoln Memorial or something like that. And then they just leave it and disappear.

And then we all start laughing about how seriously these people take themselves. I think that's important. I think it's critical. We must mock power. mock those who desperately do not wish to be mocked. Those who consider themselves sacred, let us roast those sacred cows and savor the aroma. We're going to take more of your calls in just a moment.

I will be right back. So glad you are listening. So glad you are here. We're asking some, I guess it's a dark question. Do you party? Do you celebrate when it happens? It meaning the bad cholesterol does its good work in the body of a certain sitting president.

Daryl dialing in from New York, 814. Hi, Daryl. Welcome to the show. Speaker 6: Hi, Seth. Speaker 4: So glad you're here. Will you party hardy? Will you dance in the streets? Or will you just have a moment of silence when that day comes? What do you think, Daryl?

Speaker 9: If I'm being completely honest, this is something I have struggled with, but part of me would absolutely revel on the day that it finally happens. But I've honestly also felt mournful of just thinking about the day after, the destruction that he's left in this past, the many relationships I've personally lost in friends and family over the past pretty much 12 years at this point during this MAGA era.

And that's a part of it. I think a previous caller also talked about this, of even when he's gone, The ideology will still remain, and we still have a lot of these people that still share and hold these odious beliefs. What do we do with that? It's something I've struggled with.

Speaker 4: Have you drawn that hard line? I've distanced myself. I've cut a few cords. I just don't want to be around a lot of these people anymore. I thought I knew them, but then this has been a black light that's exposed them, left a bad taste in my mouth, and finally I said enough. Is that where you went?

Speaker 9: Yeah, unfortunately, with a lot of them. It's a gradual process, as I'm sure you're well familiar with. It's hard to cut off people that you grew up with or have known for decades, and they found themselves in the black hole of bigotry, and it's hard to talk to those people or hard to share a meal over Thanksgiving with them anymore. Yeah, but I still struggle with that because ultimately, if we're going to share the same country, there has to be a bridge. Otherwise, how do we share this place with them.

Speaker 5: You know? Speaker 4: You make a good point about the upcoming holidays. I've gone through that. Do I really want to sit down and break bread with people that I know, that I know, even at the midterms, voted in ways that hurt the people and causes I care about? My instinct is, screw those people. Bio family, you know, that and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I've just come to the point now where your values are

much more important to me than blood. And then I think, well, you know, what if I go? And is it healthy for them to see me? And is there still a chance for a productive conversation? But then I think, no, screw them. I've given up on them. They've had 10 years.

And then, you know, then I go and Natalie calls them root people, right? So there are surface people and there are root people. Actually, she got it from a friend of hers. And so, you know, there are people where they have deep roots in my life, and those are core. Everybody else, they're like leaves blowing in the wind.

And a lot of those MAGA-type folks on the family tree, they're just leaf people, right? They're above surface, so. Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 2: It's a struggle. Speaker 6: I have a. Speaker 9: I know talk is cheap and there's always conversations of like, what is the reconciliation process like? Is there a path back for these folks or are they quote unquote TFG too far gone? And I don't know, for me, I like to see action. Like it's great to say, have their curmudgeons and come back and Sarah comeuppance and, fit,

they've changed their ways, but I need to see that. I need to see them actually getting involved in protests, maybe volunteering, actually doing tangible things that show that they're living these new values rather than just claiming that they've changed just probably because it's not popular or in vogue anymore to be MAGA.

Speaker 4: I mean, if somebody comes to me and they're like, I was in the cult and I was so wrong and I know I hurt people and I'm embarrassed and I want to make it right. Tell me how to make it right. And then they activate to make it right. I think the right thing to do is to make space for them. I really think contrition and the desire to help fix what is broken. But I think those people who are, and we mentioned this earlier, the quiet quitters who just want to drift into the shadows and

be invisible and not be held accountable. I don't really have any place in my heart for those folks. I just don't. Speaker 9: Do you have time for one quick question? Speaker 4: Yeah, please go ahead. Speaker 2: Go ahead. Speaker 9: I had watched the movie about the Nuremberg trials recently, I guess as a biopic. Actually, fun fact, the place that I'm from, we have the museum for Robert H.

Speaker 2: Jackson. Speaker 9: So the local community was really hyped about that movie when it came out. But when we watched it, when the movie came out, it brought up an interesting discussion. Like, what do you do with all of these party officials after World War II ended, after the Nazi party was dissolved? Like, what do you do? And their solution, along with not just killing everybody just at gunpoint, but you actually do a full blown trial, was also excising those officials from holding public office after that. Like they were barred from that,

I think, for the rest of their lives. And I would feel rightfully so. But I think in this era of MAGA, like what are your thoughts about people closest to Trump? and all that, like, from them continuing to hold power in this country. Like, what's your perspective on that? Speaker 4: It's funny you would say that. When I was on the plane going to Rocket City Reason in Huntsville, I was watching a documentary called Nuremberg, The Real Story, because I, for some reason, World War II, and, you know, we

paralleled today's fascist movement and the far-right rise in Germany with Hitler's Germany of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, and how did this happen, and blah, blah, blah. So I went back and I was watching this I just feel like we have to live in a consequence culture. And if somebody empowered Donald Trump, you know, the sycophants and the transactionalists and the sociopaths, etc., I don't know why

we would ever allow them to run anything. And I've become, right or wrong, I'm that person where when we find out the names of the ICE agents that are committing violence in the streets, I want their lives ruined. I want restaurants to close their doors. You don't get to even come in and use the restrooms. I want grocery stores to say you are not allowed to shop here.

You are not welcome here. I want public services denied to them. If you were going to murder people in the street and you're going to be part of the American Gestapo, if there won't be legal consequence, I would like to see social and societal consequence. I genuinely, right or wrong, feel in my bones, ruin their lives. And I'm not proud of that part of myself. But can you relate to it?

Speaker 9: Oh, 100%. I definitely feel that in this past two years. I mean, my politics already started getting radicalized through COVID. But the last two years, I think, is more than solidified, like anti-fascist tendencies and just understanding how power works. how it's crafted, how it's shaped, how it's weaponized against marginalized communities. Yeah, but what's going on with ISIS is absolutely 100% unacceptable.

As an organization, I don't know how that can continue to exist after Trump, after this era is over. Speaker 4: Do I think democracy will survive? I'm honestly not convinced. Natalie and I were talking about it and we're like, we have, who was it who said, we have shown the world, that within any four-year time span, we are willing to betray all of our allies, to ignore or dismantle the rule of law, and commit violence on our

own people and others around the world. Within any four-year period in our election cycle, we are capable of losing our collective minds and moral centers. And I don't think we'll bounce back from that in my lifetime. how in the world does anybody ever trust us again so will we survive i simply don't know but what are we going to do go home we got to keep kicking daryl so i so appreciate your perspective very much.

Speaker 9: Likewise um Can I just say that I've been listening to you on and off probably for the better part of the last 12 years. I think I found your podcast when I was coming out publicly as an atheist and being more vocal in my own life in rural red Pennsylvania. And your podcast genuinely helped me get through that time, especially in my relationship with the family that were also more religious. I just really appreciate the work that you're doing. And I'm glad that the podcast is

continuing to grow and continue to evolve with the times. Speaker 4: And thank you so much for your work. You're a veteran. You've been with me since, whoa, 24. Holy cow. I should be shaking your hand. Well, thank you for the kind words and, and thanks for being there, Daryl. And whatever happens, hang in there and I hope the holidays are good to you.

Speaker 5: Okay. Speaker 2: Likewise. Speaker 5: Take care. Speaker 6: All right. Speaker 4: See you later. Thomas is dialing in 405. That sounds like Western Oklahoma. Thomas, are you there? Speaker 6: Southern Oklahoma, Garvin County. Speaker 4: Oh, wonderful. Well, thanks for calling. Nice to meet a fellow Okie. What are you thinking, Thomas?

Speaker 6: Man, you and Forrest give me hope. I need a little bit more. Speaker 4: You make sure and tell Forrest that. You tell him, Seth gives me more hope than you do, Forrest Balkai. And I want to be in the room and you say it just so I can wink at him. Okay, forgive me, Thomas. Go ahead. Continue your thought.

Speaker 6: I plan on celebrating a little bit. but keeping it small and in my own presence just because I know where I live. Small town, rural Oklahoma. So when he goes, yeah, I've got whiskey saved. Speaker 4: And what's it like down there? I mean, if you're in kind of one of those little towns down south, kind of isolated from the bluer cities of Oklahoma, what's the vibe?

Speaker 6: All Valley is weird. We have a great community that will welcome individuals. But if you're part of one of the bigger clubs, there is pushback and it is hidden pushback. It is they come after you on their own one at a time to try and run you out.

Speaker 4: What are you talking about? Like a political group, a religious group, a racial group? Speaker 6: The LGBT community. Last year, finally, we got to have a pride event. And a lot of individuals came out and said, hey, there was great support at the event.

And then after the event, a lot of us got, hey, you know you're not really welcome here, right? But we do have a, we had no Kings rallies. So there's a little pocket here in this town that is trying.

We're always trying. So I'm asking you guys, Do you know about Cindy Munson? Oh, yeah. Speaker 4: Candidate for governor. Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 6: If she wins, do we have a little more hope or should I get the hell out of Dodge? I'm in a little bit of an opportunity right now.

Speaker 4: Well, you and I are having this conversation pre-midterm, but it's airing post-midterm. For those who aren't familiar, Mike Mazzei is the Trump-endorsed fear pimp who is running ads nonstop like Cindy Munson wants to transgender your children without your permission.

She wants men in women's sports. She's a socialist, you know, and you should see the stark black and white imagery and the music sounds like she's the villain in a Bond movie. And it's just a freaking joke. Mike Mazie, right?

And he's got Trump all over his ads, big full color things, big shit eating grand Donald Trump. And yet he. Speaker 6: Will make your life perfect. Speaker 4: That's right. Loves Oklahoma. Loves America. But I mean, we've got Cindy Munson, who is an Asian-American progressive Democrat. And at the time you and I are speaking is in

a near statistical polling tie with Mazie is remarkable. And so my apologies if anybody's watching or listening after the fact, after the election's been decided, I don't know what is going to happen. But the fact that she, it's even close in red state, white bread, corn fed, Trump is Stan, Oklahoma, gives me a little bit of hope that at least a percentage of the state of Oklahoma has not gone insane.

Now we're still ranked 50th in education. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 4: I don't have kids. Speaker 6: I'm pulling for them, and I'm trying to help them where I can, but it's like, come on, we've got to teach them to read again. We can't let our kids go through school not reading.

Speaker 4: Well, Thomas, hang in there, my friend, and it's nice to speak to a native and a neighbor, and I hope the rest of the year and beyond are good for you, okay? Speaker 6: You bet. Have a good one. Speaker 4: We'll see you later. Speaker 3: Bye-bye. Speaker 4: Joseph in the chat said that Macy has stopped using Trump in his ads. Now, that may be the case.

Maybe he's just going full on against Cindy, right? It's the kind of thing where you don't have a platform. All you do is point and talk about how shitty the other people are and how dangerous they are. It's the enemy from within tactic. So you don't have to stand for anything except you say, I love America. Often these guys, I have seen Oklahoma politicians running ads where they're standing in front of like a church with a steeple and a cross. They're in the auditorium. There are

actual pews. You see a Bible and they talk about how he's a man of God who loves Oklahoma and he loves America and he loves God. And immediately that's supposed to give him some sort of moral equity. The problem is in this state, often it works. I hate that.

I just hate it. By the way, speaking of Forrest Valkyrie, I got to tell you this story. He was the afternoon keynote at Rocket City Reason Huntsville. I was the opening keynote. So I spoke at nine and he spoke at like four. And his whole thing was that he was doing chemistry. And so he drove with a big van full of props and flasks and chemicals and all kinds of cool stuff. It took him a long time to set it up. Big table on the stage. We

were all like, yay, Forrest Valkyrie is going to teach chemistry. And it was amazing. And he's up there and he's filling balloons with hydrogen and setting them on fire. and trying other chemical reactions that caused something to turn from white to red to green to blue to white again.

And he had me come up on stage, and I think he had propane bubbles mixed with water, and he took an igniter and he set my hand on fire as I held it up, and the photographer got a great photograph. It's on my Facebook page in the archive there. But near the end, he had a big finish. And oh, was it big. Bigger than I think he may have anticipated.

He took, what did he put in the bottle? There was some sort of a chemical liquid. And he put it in, imagine like a two liter bottle kind of thing. Or like a big, one of those big liter water bottles that you would buy at the convenience store, right?

It's made of a relatively, it's a healthy plastic. It's not super thick, but it's thick enough. So he pours it in there. And then he drops in some sort of an activating agent and he puts a cap on it and he screws the bottle shut as pressure begins to build. Then he takes that bottle filled with the expanding chemical and he puts it at the bottom of a big red barrel, like one of those great big

trash barrels. Then he fills the barrel with what must have been 500 colored ping pong balls. And then he went on with the show and he just left this time bomb on the side of his table. And the anticipation was growing in the audience. We're like, uh, wait a minute. And he's like, at any moment, this is going to explode and it's going to blow ping pong balls all over the auditorium. And I can feel your anticipation.

And then as if it was not happening, he went on and did another experiment and And he's messing with chemicals at the table and he's talking and educating and he's trying to, he's telling jokes and ha ha. And I can't, we cannot stop looking at the red barrel with the time bomb chemical and the 500 colored ping pong balls at any moment. So I'm standing back near the back entrance and I've got my cell phone video rolling.

I did post this as well. And I'm trying, like when it goes off, Seth, try to hold your hand steady. Try not to flinch. Try to capture it. on video, right? Try to show the world what's about to happen. And he then would acknowledge it. Oh, you know, it can be three minutes. It can be 10 minutes. You just never know when it's going to go off. Then somebody said, hey, Forrest, is something on the stage smoking?

Speaker 2: Is there still something smoking? Speaker 9: There's a box right behind you. Behind me? Oh, pardon me. Speaker 1: Just a number that hadn't gone out.

Speaker 9: Nothing to worry about. Just one number that hadn't gone out. Speaker 5: We're good. Speaker 3: Are we sure? Speaker 4: We're pretty sure.

Speaker 5: Sure. Speaker 4: And the explosion. I couldn't hold still. I flinched. And so my video, it's way out of frame, but I was able to get back and show ping pong balls raining down from the sky all over the place. What's funny is that in the conference hotel ballroom, there was a six by six hole in the ceiling. He blew

a hole in the hotel. Now, it's one of those drop ceilings, you know, where they put the little foam tiles on the grid. And so, he blew ping pong balls up through the tiles, displacing the tiles into the...

Right now, and probably for the next 30 years, up there in the ceiling, there are going to be colored ping pong balls from this particular demonstration. Speaker 5: And. Speaker 4: We were able, people got ladders, they were able to go back and kind of reset the tile. I think the tiles may have a few blemishes in them. And then the poor maintenance staff had to come up and try to vacuum tiny, tiny pieces of ping pong ball

shrapnel that were everywhere. We did our best to try to pick it up. We had the big pieces, but the tiny little shrapnel embedded in that hotel carpet. And this poor guy shows up with a vacuum. He just went over it and over it and over it. And I saw Forrest and I said, well, there goes your deposit.

And he looked at me and winked and goes, it's not my deposit. It was one hell of a finale. And he was one hell of a keynote. I got one last break. We have more of your calls coming up in just a moment. Hang on. As always, I am so glad you are here. So glad you are

listening and so glad for your calls as we go back to the phones. Let's see. It's funny. I got all dudes on this show today. Mike is dialing in from 260. Thanks for your patience, Mike. Are you there?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm here. Speaker 4: Let's talk. What are you thinking? Speaker 8: I just wanted to talk about ICE because it's been kind of a hot topic in my state. And I think it's going to be a real reckoning for our country after this is all over. Speaker 10: I hope it ends.

Speaker 8: I'm hopeful that the elections will be honored. Speaker 9: But I don't know. Speaker 8: I think it's going to be something that we deal with for decades. And I'm not really looking forward to it. Not really the adult life I wanted to be living in this country at this point. Speaker 4: You know, I went to the website of Christy Burke, Jezebel Vibes, and I bought a T-shirt that she sells.

And it said, ICE is a terrorist organization funded by your tax dollars. And that's how I feel. I feel like it's a terrorist organization that's funded by our tax dollars. Speaker 8: Oh, absolutely. I can't stand it. It enrages me to see these guys murdering people in the streets and getting off scot-free. There's like little to no accountability. I think I've seen a couple news stories where maybe there have

been some charges, but it's really disheartening to see. Speaker 4: So frustrating, right? Essentially, the qualification is on the application, do you think a firearm is your penis? Speaker 5: Yes. Speaker 4: That seems to be the only qualification these days, to be a part of ICE.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like literally the worst people you could pick out of your high school or something. And then they become federal agents with immunity and assault rifles. And they're surprised that people don't listen to guys in construction vests with assault rifles pointing at them. How do you know you're not being robbed? You know, I don't get it.

Speaker 4: I mean, kids are getting shot and we've got a special needs person who was ripped and a U.S. citizen ripped out of their vehicle and detained and injured to the point where they need surgery. And I just I swear to you, I just never thought we got here. I was I was I've been so naive. So I guess I'm I may be wearier, but I certainly am wiser.

Any other thoughts, Mike? Speaker 8: No, that was really all I wanted to talk about, Seth. Just real quick, I wanted to say that my wife and I are longtime listeners. This is the first time I've ever gotten through to you. So it was great talking to you. And thank you for all you do and your influence and everything. And I can't wait to listen to more of you.

Speaker 6: Thank you. Speaker 4: Thank you, Mike. And much love to both of you. And say hi to your wife and please give her a hug from Natalie and me. Speaker 5: Okay. Speaker 10: All right. Speaker 7: Will do, Seth. Speaker 5: Thank you. Speaker 2: See you later. Speaker 4: 403 i don't see a name hi what do i call you hey it's eric eric let's talk what are you thinking.

Speaker 1: Hey so well first couple of things um about your america happened to come back and like reconcile all this was that sam harris maybe you heard that from it. Speaker 4: May have been sam harris i don't really follow sam anymore but it seems like i saw him quoted in an article but yeah it may have been sam i don't know i'll have.

Speaker 1: To go look it up yeah he echoes that quite often and then uh I was laughing at your ping pong ball story because I do like HVAC work. So I'm up in those kind of. Speaker 2: Areas a lot. Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. Speaker 1: And I would have to say if I came across a bunch of ping pong balls, I'd have to get my head in a scratch. How the hell did those get up there?

Speaker 4: I got to ask you, Eric. Eric, if you're crawling around in those areas, what's some of the weirdest stuff that you have come across? Like, do you have any stories? Do you have an anecdote? Speaker 1: Me personally, no, but some of the other guys I've worked with, they've come across some, it's usually adult toys for some reason. Or stashing them in hotel rooms.

Speaker 2: And then they forget about them. Speaker 1: It's great. They're not quite sure what to do with it. Speaker 4: So you want it, you need access to it, so you just unscrew the vent cover and you throw it in and then you forget. Speaker 1: Yeah, those drop ceiling tiles are just so easy to move to the side and just hide something up.

Speaker 2: There, right? Yeah. Speaker 4: Do what you got to do. Speaker 1: Thinking about your chump question. And I live up in Alberta in Canada. So I got, it almost feels like a personal bone to pick with him. But I, for the longest time I was, I was thinking about the day that he did die and they're like, Oh, what?

Speaker 5: I feel happy. Speaker 1: I do think I would feel like a weight's been lifted almost when he's out of there. But then I was just watching him on stage and I'm almost starting to feel. Speaker 2: Bad for him. Speaker 1: Like he's 80 years old and you can see the decline in his cognitive abilities and his speech. And it's just like we're watching this old man just start failing in real time.

Speaker 2: It is bizarre. Speaker 1: But then I think about how he went and bombed a school in Iran, and then that. Speaker 2: Just disappears, right? Speaker 1: So I hop back and forth quite often about it, but I do think a big weight's going to be lifted. Speaker 4: I want him addled. I want his brain to be lukewarm oatmeal. I want to see him sitting there with drool coming out of his mouth, and he's not able to use consonants anymore. And I want him just cognitive enough to be able to sort of half understand that

he is no longer the center of all things. And I want him to be miserable. And I'm just such a petty, petty, petty person about it, Eric. I'm petty, and I'll admit it and own it. But that's just me. Speaker 1: No, it's not just you either, but yeah, it's... There was a lot of Trump rhetoric up in my province anyways.

We just went through that referendum. So fortunately, that didn't go through. Speaker 4: Now, wait, are you near? I heard Calgary is kind of a MAGA, sort of Canadian MAGA, Maple MAGA. Is that where you are? Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just north of there. So yeah, it's kind of in the rural area. We're kind of Trump-ish country.

I mean, as far as Canada goes. Speaker 4: Well, what's that about? He talks shit about Canada all the time. Why is there Canadian support for the man? Speaker 1: Because, well, in this part of the country, anyways, we're all about oil and gas. And so is he, right?

Speaker 5: Drill, baby, drill. Speaker 1: There's even a guy who put up a sign just outside the town that I live in. So They love that kind of stuff. They figure if we build more pipelines, they themselves will get richer, but they don't. They just haven't figured it out. He speaks their language when it comes to trans people. There's a lot of anti-trans sentiment around here too, which is tough to navigate. I don't think they see or they're privy to the other stuff.

It's like when you come at them with the facts, it's like it's news to them or they don't believe you because you heard it on the legacy media or whatever, right? So they think it's fake news. They're buying into that. Speaker 4: You remind me of a famous quote by Robert Heinlein. He said, you can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic. And that's sadly true.

Speaker 9: Isn't it? Speaker 1: It is. Speaker 5: Even up here, yeah. Speaker 1: So they buy hook, line, and sinker. Speaker 4: Well, save us a spot on the couch in case things go south here between now and whenever. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope to. Speaker 1: I missed you when you were in Calgary last time, but I hope to see you. I caught you a few years ago, but.

Speaker 5: I hope to see you soon. Speaker 4: I just spoke to the folks at the We Can Reason conference in Calgary, and they are doing it at the end of April next year. And yes, I have been invited. So I hope we get a chance to shake hands then, okay? Speaker 9: Awesome.

Speaker 4: Thanks, man. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 4: Take care. Yeah, the 2027 conference schedule, they start to allot dates. They are going to do Rocket City again in October next year. Speaker 2: Year. Speaker 4: Florida Free Thought, that's coming up at the end of February.

Tickets on sale for that, freeflow.org. We Can Reason Calgary, that's coming up end of April. You'll see the usual suspects on the conference roster, FFRF. I think the American Humanist Association will have a national convention. And I'll try to update the pages, the website pages, whenever I get all those details in at thethinkingatheist.com. Let's take one final call.

This is an international web call from Dave. Welcome, Dave. Are you there? Speaker 10: Hey, good evening. Is my audio okay? Speaker 4: Yeah, you sound great. Speaker 10: Okay. Uh, yeah, because I'm using a headset. Just so just checking. I'm calling in from the Netherlands over here.

We're looking with awe and wonder at how everything is going on in the U S because it's amazing that people still support your president. Speaker 2: It is unbelievable. Speaker 4: Mass psychosis. I think, right. It's just unbelievable.

Speaker 10: It seems a bit like the old Testament, you know, um, It doesn't matter what God does for bad things. People will always find an excuse to support it. And we see everything that's happening over there with the things that happened over here in the 40s. Yeah, there's so much comparison to those two things. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 4: Are you aware... In the Netherlands, that there is a resistance movement, or are we just being blanket blamed? And maybe we deserve it. But is there any charity at all for some of us who are trapped on this sinking vessel? Speaker 10: For people like myself that watch The Line and your show and stuff, yeah, we see that, but we don't see it in any media over here. Basically, the only thing that's covered is the weird thing your president did today,

the sanctions he put on countries. The support for Russia now, stuff like that we see, but we don't see anything about resistance. Yeah, we saw the big no-case demonstrations, but that's basically it. Speaker 4: Will sanity return? This is the big question mark. I have no idea what to expect, Dave. Anything else before I close out the show today?

Speaker 10: Yeah, I do want to say that over here, our governments, they are discussing everything your president does and are all saying how terrible it is. But it doesn't seem like anyone wants to take a big stand towards the U.S.

because maybe they're too scared or maybe they're afraid of economic consequences. But the same with the lack of support for Ukraine and now supporting Putin again. Yeah, everyone is talking about it, but nobody does anything about it over here.

Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we've got the billions of dollars military complex. We got Elon with Starlink and the satellites and all this power. And so right now they're probably playing chess more than checkers. But I know condemnation around the world is continuing to rise, and it's understandable. And honestly, I'd join them. I wouldn't trust us either. Check in with me in a few years, Dave. We'll see if we're smoldering ashes or if we are beginning to rebuild.

Speaker 2: Okay? Speaker 10: Well, hopefully for your country, he will get put to the side really fast. If he's not dead, someone will actually try to kill him. Speaker 4: No, no, we don't want that. Otherwise, we don't want the assassination.

Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 10: No, but they tried. So it's in line of reason that it might happen again. But I do hope the next elections, they will not get rigged and he will be removed and put in jail for everything he did.

Speaker 4: Maybe while touring a factory, he might slip and fall into the gears of a combine. Like, I'm okay with that, Dave. I can sleep okay at night with that, Dave. You take care. Thanks for the call, my friend. We'll see you soon, all right? Speaker 2: Have a great one. Speaker 4: All right, we'll see you later. A vat of acid.

I mean, like, you know, the Joker in Batman. Except the Joker survived and became powerful, so that's a bad analogy. I like to just spend this last hour in whatever. I just wanted to sort of... Examine the human heart and mind, our primal selves, the ideas of justice and injustice, and whether it's moral to have a wine bottle ready when the death of a Cretan happens. I'm watching the

ticking clock. Appreciate you very, very much. Hang in there, take care, and we'll. Speaker 10: Do it again. Speaker 3: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter. For a complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and t-shirts featuring The Thinking Atheist logo, links to Atheist pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events and conventions, log on to our website, thethinkingatheist.com.